Transmission Oil Change

[Franktea1$]

Curious is there any setting to stop the transmission from downshifting? I could understand the performance part but not needed for regular driving, more wear and wasted fuel when you could glide.

[HPIA4v2]

Originally Posted by turboawd

The transfer case fluid is the one that gets beat the most and should be changed more often.

Just looking at the color of fluid, this is probably true. Xfer case fluid is so dirty compare to diff or even tranny's, not sure why BMW insist on M car to have the diff fluid replaced @1200 miles while ignoring the xfer case fluid.
And I heard so many xfer case fail more so than diff, as the matter of fact my E71 X6 50i had that issue so I traded it for X6M

Just did the tranny fluid, last weekend, not too bad, plenty of room underneath just watch out for exhaust pipe during refill.

[musa]

Originally Posted by HPIA4v2

Just looking at the color of fluid, this is probably true. Xfer case fluid is so dirty compare to diff or even tranny's, not sure why BMW insist on M car to have the diff fluid replaced @1200 miles while ignoring the xfer case fluid.
And I heard so many xfer case fail more so than diff, as the matter of fact my E71 X6 50i had that issue so I traded it for X6M

Just did the tranny fluid, last weekend, not too bad, plenty of room underneath just watch out for exhaust pipe during refill.

How's the shifting after the change? I also had my transfer case oil changed in addition to the trans and diffs. Now when when the vehicle has stopped and waiting (e.g. at a stop light), after 4-5 secs I feel a slight nudge at the rear, like someone gave the vehicle a gentle kick . How's your's behaving? When I first felt this I thought the car behind me had hit me.

[8202632]

For the M Guys, it's in service booklet to be done on the 5th service or 50k miles. If I had an f15, i would probably just stick with the m schedule.

Funny that there is NO front diff recommendation anywhere...

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Originally Posted by musa

How's the shifting after the change? I also had my transfer case oil changed in addition to the trans and diffs. Now when when the vehicle has stopped and waiting (e.g. at a stop light), after 4-5 secs I feel a slight nudge at the rear, like someone gave the vehicle a gentle kick . How's your's behaving? When I first felt this I thought the car behind me had hit me.

Have your transmission adaptations reset and then perform the relearn procedure (30 percent throttle from a stop to 60, let coast down to stop, smooth road, no interruptions, repeat 3 times and then do 3 times in sport and also in manual (shift at 2500-3k in manual).

Also have your transfer case recalibrated at the same time. You can also do all this yourself with a ENET cable, laptop, and ISTA if you are a do-it-yourselfer.

Make sure to do the relearn procedure on the transmission after as it will actually shift worse for the first few miles after reset while the computer is learning the new adaptations. Smooth long stretches of level roads are a must during the relearn. If you are in city then try to do when traffic is lightest, goal is not to be interrupted by having to brake early.

[Franktea1$]

I have completed a dump and refill today. I did not change the pan.

Initial fill 3.5 qts until overflow, ran engine as procedure calls for. Added another 1.5 during engine running.

Took 5 qts total.

I doubled checked what i took out also total 5 qts.

Frank

[NikNala]

Originally Posted by 8202632

For the M Guys, it's in service booklet to be done on the 5th service or 50k miles. If I had an f15, i would probably just stick with the m schedule.

Funny that there is NO front diff recommendation anywhere...

Unless I'm reading it wrong it says manual transmission fluid. 🤷🏻*♂️

[DgjoX6M2016]

Originally Posted by Franktea1$

I have completed a dump and refill today. I did not change the pan.

Initial fill 3.5 qts until overflow, ran engine as procedure calls for. Added another 1.5 during engine running.

Took 5 qts total.

I doubled checked what i took out also total 5 qts.

Frank

ATF expands when warm, which is why you should have your OBDII tool plugged in and reading transmission fluid temp as you fill. If you fill with cold, you may overfill. You want ATF at like 120 when filling.

[turboawd]

Originally Posted by DgjoX6M2016

ATF expands when warm, which is why you should have your OBDII tool plugged in and reading transmission fluid temp as you fill. If you fill with cold, you may overfill. You want ATF at like 120 when filling.

How much can the fluid possibly expand? I don't think it's that critical.

[Franktea1$]

Originally Posted by DgjoX6M2016

ATF expands when warm, which is why you should have your OBDII tool plugged in and reading transmission fluid temp as you fill. If you fill with cold, you may overfill. You want ATF at like 120 when filling.

I measured what was taken out, 5 qts. Exactly what went in.

[///MCollection]

If it was mine for the extra work I would set it at the specified temp. ZF have used this method for years and don't do it for nothing. These boxes are under massive load and cost a fortune to rebuild. I am worried you're negating any positive effect of changing oil by POSSIBLY running an incorrect level.

I see your point about what went in matches what came out but it's one hell of an expensive gamble.

[DgjoX6M2016]

Originally Posted by Franktea1$

I measured what was taken out, 5 qts. Exactly what went in.

Might be ok, but if what was removed was at a different temp to what went in there could be a quantity difference. This video was interesting demonstrating expansion.

He came up with 7.5% expansion across some extreme cold to hot. And he couldn't get it hot enough to replicate operating temp. Adds up in volume across 6,7,8 liters or whatever is in the ZF8HP. Wish there was a damn dip stick.

[Yuille36]

This is some good advice, as I'm in the 50K range now. I've completed a brake flush, engine coolant flush and power steering flush. Still have the F/R Diffs, transfer case and transmission to do. You've all heard this before, but I've reached out to BMW, and they don't recommend doing a transmission service unless it has an issue, sited lifetime fluid BS. Well, I'm having my services done regardless. F/R Diffs and transfer case is straight forward, transmission is a little more involved. As is pretty much the same procedure as my E63 AMG, the transmission has to be brought up to operating temperature. I'm planning on changing the filter and the oil. My shop quoted me around $800, to include the expensive transmission fluids from BMW. So from what I read thus far, I need to purchase approximately 6 liters?

[DgjoX6M2016]

Originally Posted by Yuille36

This is some good advice, as I'm in the 50K range now. I've completed a brake flush, engine coolant flush and power steering flush. Still have the F/R Diffs, transfer case and transmission to do. You've all heard this before, but I've reached out to BMW, and they don't recommend doing a transmission service unless it has an issue, sited lifetime fluid BS. Well, I'm having my services done regardless. F/R Diffs and transfer case is straight forward, transmission is a little more involved. As is pretty much the same procedure as my E63 AMG, the transmission has to be brought up to operating temperature. I'm planning on changing the filter and the oil. My shop quoted me around $800, to include the expensive transmission fluids from BMW. So from what I read thus far, I need to purchase approximately 6 liters?

Listen to this Amsoil rep. Lots of info here that can be confusing, but he states Allison recommends 100k fluid exchanges given the use of PAO based synthetics. Allison knows a thing or two about transmissions. Around the 7:30-8 min mark. Non POA group III fluids have a hard stop at like 30k given varnish/antioxidants failing. There is likely truth in the 'lifetime' claim it seems if the ZF Lifeguard fluid ..if lifetime is 75k miles or so.

[///MCollection]

As far as I am aware the lifetime fluid thing is BMW not ZF and as previously said lifetime has a lifespan, think it's approx 40k.

I think I may have spouted this before but a ZF guy told me we do engine oil and filter religiously and it mainly does lubrication and slight cooling. Autobox fluid does lubrication, cooling and forces drive. Why would you leave this in for massive miles?

Changing the fluid over 100k miles is apparently not great as fresh detergents can shift deposits and cause issues.

Changing oil after issues is surely flawed, better to change oil/fluid regularly before the doom and gloom starts in my opinion

[DgjoX6M2016]

Originally Posted by ///MCollection

As far as I am aware the lifetime fluid thing is BMW not ZF and as previously said lifetime has a lifespan, think it's approx 40k.

I think I may have spouted this before but a ZF guy told me we do engine oil and filter religiously and it mainly does lubrication and slight cooling. Autobox fluid does lubrication, cooling and forces drive. Why would you leave this in for massive miles?

Changing the fluid over 100k miles is apparently not great as fresh detergents can shift deposits and cause issues.

Changing oil after issues is surely flawed, better to change oil/fluid regularly before the doom and gloom starts in my opinion

I didn't say it was a ZF thing. It's a BMW thing for sure. With that said, and I DO believe in swap out fluids, but when someone like Allison says their units can go 100k on the original fluids and are so warranted, I take significant comfort and don't lose sleep over transmission fluid.

Also, I have never seen anything empirical about loosening up debris in a transmission post fluid change as a real risk. The magnet picks up any metallic sediment. I suppose if the transmission has been thrashed and there is some shellac buildup from lower quality OEM ATF, there could be a problem. But as far as a well maintained modern car I wouldn't worry. See pic for my 140k mile e91 with GM unit first fluid change. Was gross fluid, but working fine. Still works fine with new ATF.

PS. ZF suggest 50-75k intervals.

[///MCollection]

Sorry if it came across as such but wasn't referring to you saying anyone said anything

Grateful for you sharing your knowledge and was just adding some more opinions to the topic

[Yuille36]

Just talked to BMW of Fairfax, they said that the lifetime transmission fluid is good for at least 100,000 miles.
So, I asked about changing my fluid, they said that they wouldn't do a service unless I had a issue.
Can you believe, we all know fluids aren't lifetime. So, I'm going to have my own shop do my trans service instead.

[DgjoX6M2016]

Originally Posted by ///MCollection

Sorry if it came across as such but wasn't referring to you saying anyone said anything

Grateful for you sharing your knowledge and was just adding some more opinions to the topic

No worries! You're good!
And the vast majority of my info comes from by father who is an engineer and OG drag racer gearhead from the 50s, who still subscribes to SAE International monthly (excellent resource BTW). We have blown many a transmission, engine and driveshaft given our GM big block homologations. Usually my fault, too.

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Originally Posted by Yuille36

Just talked to BMW of Fairfax, they that lifetime transmission fluid for at least 100,000 miles. And that they wouldn't due a service unless I had a issue.

Yep, they have to, its their marketing BS so they have to say that.

Each and every BMW owner has to decide what to believe: The BMW marketing division, or the actual Engineers who made the transmission at ZF.

Another factor to consider is how is your M driven? What kind of life did it have before you owned it if you are not the first owner.

A daily driver that is stuck in LA traffic is going to see a much higher frequency of shifts and high temps then someone who drives highways in Canada.

100K cool climate freeway miles....sure I could see that.

100K city traffic miles...not a chance.

IMHO, I think 70K is the sweet spot to do a oil change. 50K if you track your M, or tow regularly.

Keep in mind too when you do a change, its only getting about 50% of the oil so best to do it before the 100K mark. If you want to be more thorough, you can loosen the valve body and get about a 70% oil change but its a bit tricky and easier for most just to change oil again (don't have to do the pan/filter) in another 20-30K miles after first change.

I have over 155,000 miles on my transmission now, had to replace all of the solenoids at around 100K, oil was black as night when I did it. I firmly believe the solenoids would have been fine if I & the previous owner had not believed the BMW marketing BS of "lifetime oil"

BMW will not replace solenoids btw, but they will be more then happy to sell you a new transmission for about 16K right about the time your warranty expires.

[Lighting.Grey]

I'm wondering what does the new F95/F96 menu say, is it still life time BS?

[Franktea1$]

If changing the pan, I would go with 6 liters.