Is this a valid reason to reprimand an employee?

[Mosaud1998]

One of my close friends works at an injection molding company. This friend's coworker needed to talk to HR. But, in order to get to that area of the office, he has to go through secure doors, and his access badge wasn't working. There are actually two doors - the door my friend's coworker was trying to open and another one only HR can open from the inside of the room. My friend tried to use his own badge to open the main door, but that didn't work either either. He then knocked on the door twice, but still no one came to help. His initial thought was maybe the door is jammed, so he kind of pushed the door. What he didn't know was that the HR manager was actually in the room, but he was sitting in an area where nobody could really see him. When he realized someone was at the door, he got up and opened it.

Later in the day, my friend's supervisor told him the HR manager went to the company manager and complained about the incident, and he might have to sign a warning paper tomorrow morning. My friend has been working for that company for five years now. And, HR doesn't like him because, per his supervisors, he makes more money than the HR manager. He's afraid he might get fired. HR isn't supposed to lock doors unless they're on break, but my friend doesn't know when HR is on break or not.

I dont understand what my friend did. Pushed a door because he thought it was stuck, and the lazy HR couldn't get his ass up to open the door on the first knock?

[chassis]

What exactly is the offense? Using someone else's card to open the door?

If an action is against company policy, it's a potentially terminable offense. It doesn't matter if the employee was aware of the policy or not. The employee knows a policy manual exists.

If an action is in the grey zone regarding company policy, and HR employs humans to interpret both the action and the policy, it's possible and potentially likely that the grey area action could be a terminable offense. Humans do what humans do, which is behave like (imperfect) humans.

People get dismissed for good, and not so good, reasons every day.

Grey areas become black and white very quickly, in the eyes of management, if the business outlook changes. If a company loses a customer contract, commodity prices go up, or a competitor lowers price in the market, management will quickly look for ways to reduce cost. This can and does include reducing employee cost using any and all means at their disposal.

[Mosaud1998]

Originally Posted by chassis

What exactly is the offense? Using someone else's card to open the door?

That's what I'm trying to figure out. He didn't use anyone else's card. So, that's off the list.

Safety issue?

[RickFLM4]

If HR isn’t supposed to lock door unless they are in break, doesn’t that mean when the doors are locked people should come back later? Seems like a petty complaint by HR the way it was described so maybe your friend can explain what happened to his manager who can intervene and resolve the problem. Hostility towards HR won’t help the situation.

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by RickFLM4

If HR isn’t supposed to lock door unless they are in break, doesn’t that mean when the doors are locked people should come back later? Seems like a petty complaint by HR the way it was described so maybe your friend can explain what happened to his manager who can intervene and resolve the problem. Hostility towards HR won’t help the situation.

This.

He should immediately engage his manager and, if the organization isn't flat, enjoin his manager's manager to step in. Depending on the size of the company, HR can wield asymmetric power with respect to their titles.

As has been stated earlier, he doesn't want to make an enemy of HR. No good can come of it. Especially if there is a petty tyrant working in the department.

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by chassis

What exactly is the offense? Using someone else's card to open the door?

If an action is against company policy, it's a potentially terminable offense. It doesn't matter if the employee was aware of the policy or not. The employee knows a policy manual exists.

If an action is in the grey zone regarding company policy, and HR employs humans to interpret both the action and the policy, it's possible and potentially likely that the grey area action could be a terminable offense. Humans do what humans do, which is behave like (imperfect) humans.

People get dismissed for good, and not so good, reasons every day.

Grey areas become black and white very quickly, in the eyes of management, if the business outlook changes. If a company loses a customer contract, commodity prices go up, or a competitor lowers price in the market, management will quickly look for ways to reduce cost. This can and does include reducing employee cost using any and all means at their disposal.

Employee manuals are for the GUIDANCE of the management team. And everything you stated is true.

I really believe it depends on the culture of the organization. The HR person described in the OP seems petty but we shall see how it ends.

Great post!!

[Tommy-G]

Is Illinois an at will state?
Technically you can be fired for ANY or NO reason at all if that's the case.

One of my old bosses taught me a good lesson, don't worry until it's time to worry. That is very hard to do, I know....

If he gets a warning, there should be a place for his rebuttal but I personally wouldn't make a federal case of it. Sometimes when an employee starts arguing they are seen as troublesome and become scrutinized that much harder in their day to day.

[2000cs]

Where I worked we had badges and related policies. If your badge doesn’t work, go to a designated entrance and check in like a visitor. Receive a temp badge until yours is replaced, usually later that day.
Do not tailgate in.
If another person asks you to let him/her in because they forgot their badge, send them to the main entrance - the reason for this is you don’t know if they got terminated and are on their way in with a gun...
So these are disciplinary actions, including termination.

A failed door badge reader is generally a “go around to another door” situation. We wouldn’t discipline for that, provided both badges were good and there was no threat from either employee/former employee.

By the way, HR is almost never the friend of employees, even though it is presented as such. It is there to protect the company from employee litigation.

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by 2000cs

Where I worked we had badges and related policies. If your badge doesn’t work, go to a designated entrance and check in like a visitor. Receive a temp badge until yours is replaced, usually later that day.
Do not tailgate in.
If another person asks you to let him/her in because they forgot their badge, send them to the main entrance - the reason for this is you don’t know if they got terminated and are on their way in with a gun...
So these are disciplinary actions, including termination.

A failed door badge reader is generally a “go around to another door” situation. We wouldn’t discipline for that, provided both badges were good and there was no threat from either employee/former employee.

By the way, HR is almost never the friend of employees, even though it is presented as such. It is there to protect the company from employee litigation.

The warm and fuzzy 5th column.

[detroitm2]

Originally Posted by TommyG-inFlaNow

Is Illinois an at will state?
Technically you can be fired for ANY or NO reason at all if that's the case.

One of my old bosses taught me a good lesson, don't worry until it's time to worry. That is very hard to do, I know....

If he gets a warning, there should be a place for his rebuttal but I personally wouldn't make a federal case of it. Sometimes when an employee starts arguing they are seen as troublesome and become scrutinized that much harder in their day to day.

Came here to say this.

Yes, Illinois is an "at will" state. It really doesn't matter what the offense was or wasn't, they can basically terminate someone for any reason (thats not a protected class), or no reason at all.

[vreihen16]

Originally Posted by TommyG-inFlaNow

Is Illinois an at will state?
Technically you can be fired for ANY or NO reason at all if that's the case.

That was my first thought, and a quick web search says Illinois is an at-will employment state.

The bigger question to me is why any company's HR office feels the need to have card swipe locks on their main doors? Do they really have that many current/former employees threatening them?????

[DETRoadster]

Couldnt he have just sent an e-mail to HR? Or called them? Or left a note on the door saying "Hi HR, It's Billy, I need a moment of your time when you are free, please", or asked his manager to get a hold of them, or wait till the next day when he saw them? A million options here that dont involve trying to force open an apparently stuck door. He knocked 2x and no one answered. The door was closed. Assume no one is in there and walk away. HR deals with confidential information, employee records, pay stubs, etc. They could have been in there having a confidential convo with another employee. Back when I worked out of our office I'd commonly close the door (No lock on my office door) to have confidential convos or just get a moment to myself to focus. I'd be pissed ad Hell if someone knocked 2x and then tried to force the door open if I failed to get up to answer. Unless I was on the floor having a heart attack. Then by all means come on in.

Agreed with MKSixer - Your buddy needs to go get support from his manager ASAP. Plead his case and ignorance to the manager and hope the manager can stand up to HR and prevent any disciplinary action on the part of the company.

[smyles]

Originally Posted by vreihen16

...
The bigger question to me is why any company's HR office feels the need to have card swipe locks on their main doors? ..

Personnel files, confidentiality considerations, etc.

[CTinline-six]

It seems petty compared to the shit that goes on at the locations where I work, but keep in mind if someone from HR wants them to be gone, they will find a way. This might be one of their attempts.

[2000cs]

Originally Posted by vreihen16

...
The bigger question to me is why any company's HR office feels the need to have card swipe locks on their main doors? Do they really have that many current/former employees threatening them?????

Unfortunately this is standard advice from active shooter consultants these days. There doesn’t need to be a threat for someone to come in angry, and armed. And as someone else mentioned, there is confidential info in there and often confidential (and confrontational) conversations going on.

I prefer an environment of openness and trust, but this seems to be our world now.

[spazzyfry123]

Looking at this from the other side of the fence as someone that has an office with a (non-locking) door. If I had my door closed (and even more, locked) and I did not get up to answer the door after it being knocked on, I think the message is clear that I do not want to be bothered - whether that be because I am buried in work or having a confidential conversation or just don't want to deal with the fools.

I would not be a happy camper if someone forced my door open to gain access.

That said, not knowing how the company culture is, I think a lot of this could be handled with a conversation. Seeing that this is coming from HR, you can bet your house this "warning" is just to have something documented. Maybe your buddy has been a PIA to deal with and they're building ammo for what's on the horizon?

As someone mentioned on here, HR is there to protect the company, not you. I've been in those meetings as a manager (I'm not in HR thank god). The mask makes it seem like they are your resource, but in a leadership meeting the truth is clear - protect the company by way of documentation.

[Mingwan]

The HR guy didn’t just tell him on the spot to not do that again? Honestly, it sounds like the HR guy was masturbating and is upset he almost got caught, and was interrupted.

[CTinline-six]

Originally Posted by Mingwan

The HR guy didn’t just tell him on the spot to not do that again? Honestly, it sounds like the HR guy was masturbating and is upset he almost got caught, and was interrupted.

[RickFLM4]

Originally Posted by vreihen16

That was my first thought, and a quick web search says Illinois is an at-will employment state.

The bigger question to me is why any company's HR office feels the need to have card swipe locks on their main doors? Do they really have that many current/former employees threatening them?????

Maybe payroll records are in there and / or they conduct super top secret meetings?

[CTinline-six]

I think one of the reasons the show "The Office" is so popular is because of how realistic it is when comparing an actual office environment. People really are that fucking crazy in real life.

In my short career I've had so many moments where I sometimes have to ask myself "is this for real?" because of how ridiculous and petty people can be.

[Mosaud1998]

Originally Posted by CTinline-six

It seems petty compared to the shit that goes on at the locations where I work, but keep in mind if someone from HR wants them to be gone, they will find a way. This might be one of their attempts.

I hope not. From what my friend's supervisors told him, HR has been jealous of my friend ever since he started making more money than HR( A year ago or so).

[Mosaud1998]

Originally Posted by Mingwan

The HR guy didn’t just tell him on the spot to not do that again? Honestly, it sounds like the HR guy was masturbating and is upset he almost got caught, and was interrupted.

lmao . Hell, HR was in a corner where nobody could really see him so who knows

But, you're right. HR couldn't have just told him there and then not to do that again? Some people really are petty.