Downpipes ASAP!!!

[MadViper]

I've had the car a few month now, very very happy but i feel i can do better with catted downpipes. Does anybody know a reputable company that have them.
Thanks in advance

[tastelid]

Look at any number of exhaust-related threads on the first page of this forum!

Examples: http://f15.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1200147 and http://f15.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1197465

[MadViper]

You are referring to mufflers, I want downpipes and megan racing exhaust when available.
Had a friend with stock exhaust in a M5, and then installed the downpipes and the sound was amazing!!

[tastelid]

Such threads tend to discuss all parts of the exhaust.

[JNoSol]

http://shop.evolve-technik.com/produ...-x5m-downpipes

Manhart, GThaus, ER are releasing theirs soon.

Out of all the options above, I believe ER would be the lowest price. Their craftsmanship is top notch.

Keep in mind you will need an ECU flash. ESS has a flash for Catless DPs.

There is no sense of running high flow catted after market DPs, as both catted and catless options would risk a warranty claim related to the drivetrain. So that being said, if you're going to play, play all the way.

[UrbanExtant]

Originally Posted by JNoSol

http://shop.evolve-technik.com/produ...-x5m-downpipes

Manhart, GThaus, ER are releasing theirs soon.

Out of all the options above, I believe ER would be the lowest price. Their craftsmanship is top notch.

Keep in mind you will need an ECU flash. ESS has a flash for Catless DPs.

There is no sense of running high flow catted after market DPs, as both catted and catless options would risk a warranty claim related to the drivetrain. So that being said, if you're going to play, play all the way.

Very true. It is interesting to try to figure out which mods BMW will look the other way on, and which ones they decide to put their foot down on. With coding, it's a fine line to walk. So many things they care little about, but then others put a huge red flag on your internal BMW "file" for that vehicle. The same goes with launch control, and them tracking, secretly, how many times it is used, and then deciding, down the road, if they will or will not honor a warranty claim for something that could have failed from overuse of launch control. Be it right or wrong, their lawyers word things "just so" to protect them from us, not us from them.

[MadViper]

The sound of catless DP is very strong for my taste, the main reason I'm going with catted downpipes is for acoustics, not performance.
I drive the car everyday, I'm not located in America and every time the dealers does an upgrade to the car I will need to send the ECU and not being able to drive the car for a week or so is not an option.
If tuners like Active Autowerke and Velos can come up with a ecu remap the same way the did in the E70 X5M, wich was done entirely on the phone I would see that as a performance option.
Right now I'm looking to improve the sound department.

[JNoSol]

Originally Posted by UrbanExtant

Very true. It is interesting to try to figure out which mods BMW will look the other way on, and which ones they decide to put their foot down on. With coding, it's a fine line to walk. So many things they care little about, but then others put a huge red flag on your internal BMW "file" for that vehicle. The same goes with launch control, and them tracking, secretly, how many times it is used, and then deciding, down the road, if they will or will not honor a warranty claim for something that could have failed from overuse of launch control. Be it right or wrong, their lawyers word things "just so" to protect them from us, not us from them.

Agree with your comment, other than tracking and launch control. Unlike Nissan with the GTR, BMW can care less if you track and use launch control. In fact, BMW wants you to track the car, supporting HPDS/HPDE. The more you track your BMW, the more you will be hooked to the brand.

If you run engine mods + using launch control + tracking, then warranty claim would be much harder.

Originally Posted by MadViper

The sound of catless DP is very strong for my taste, the main reason I'm going with catted downpipes is for acoustics, not performance.
I drive the car everyday, I'm not located in America and every time the dealers does an upgrade to the car I will need to send the ECU and not being able to drive the car for a week or so is not an option.
If tuners like Active Autowerke and Velos can come up with a ecu remap the same way the did in the E70 X5M, wich was done entirely on the phone I would see that as a performance option.
Right now I'm looking to improve the sound department.

To be honest with you, the X5M stock exhaust sounds good from the outside. It's throaty and cracks during upshifts at WOT. A little more volume would be nice.

If I were you (since you don't care about performance gains), look at Eisenmann Race exhaust. It might deliver the sound you want without the hassle of CEL and ECU tune. Aftermarket catted DPs are not reliable, just installing a muffler is easily reversible and doesn't void warranty.

[UrbanExtant]

JNoSol, make no mistake about it, BMW does very diligently track launch control usage. I have it on very good authority that this is so. Frequently having interactions with higher-ups in BMW, and the constitution to ask very direct, poignant questions, yields some interesting results, and information.

Yes, they want people to track the vehicle, within their level of what is reasonable. Simple economics mandate that supporting continual warranty claims for abuse via track, and drag strip usage would be unwise, and financially inadvisable for BMW. It is for us to figure out what their level of acceptable track usage is, and to live within that.

Launch control puts considerable strain on the drivetrain. The engine being well over $40k dollars, and the transmission a many times over $10k piece of equipment, not to mention differentials that can be warped and strained with repeated abuse. Humankind is not at the point in time where they are able to make metal refuse to wear from fatigue. replacing these pieces in multiple M vehicles that have been beaten with launch control, racing, and drag strip usage with out setting some limits to which you'd deny claims, is simply something a corporation like BMW would not propose to do.

[JNoSol]

Originally Posted by UrbanExtant

JNoSol, make no mistake about it, BMW does very diligently track launch control usage. I have it on very good authority that this is so. Frequently having interactions with higher-ups in BMW, and the constitution to ask very direct, poignant questions, yields some interesting results, and information.

Yes, they want people to track the vehicle, within their level of what is reasonable. Simple economics mandate that supporting continual warranty claims for abuse via track, and drag strip usage would be unwise, and financially inadvisable for BMW. It is for us to figure out what their level of acceptable track usage is, and to live within that.

Launch control puts considerable strain on the drivetrain. The engine being well over $40k dollars, and the transmission a many times over $10k piece of equipment, not to mention differentials that can be warped and strained with repeated abuse. Humankind is not at the point in time where they are able to make metal refuse to wear from fatigue. replacing these pieces in multiple M vehicles that have been beaten with launch control, racing, and drag strip usage with out setting some limits to which you'd deny claims, is simply something a corporation like BMW would not propose to do.

I would doubt there's anyone who use their launch control enough to break the car. I came from an F80 DCT, I can tell you is manually launching is way faster than launch control. I believe one of the members validated this for the F85 as well.

The owner's manual on the F80 reads "Do not use Launch Control too often; otherwise, this may result in premature wear of components due to the high stress placed on the vehicle."

Page 81 of the F85 owner's manual under Component Wear: "Do not use Launch Control too often; otherwise, this may result in premature wear of components due to the high stress placed on the vehicle." "Do not use Launch Control under break-in..."

What does "too often" means? It says nothing about voiding the warranty. I wouldn't worry too much about it. There's not one official report of anyone getting their warranty claim denied due to tracking or using launch control with a stock engine.

This remains an Urban Legend until proven.

I feel bad for the GTR guys. They lose warranty if they turn off VDC or use launch control or track. Why would Nissan sell a track capable car and tell customers they can't use those features or track it?...

I'll stick to BMWs and Porsche. They both can care less if you track and even sponsor some of those track events.

[UrbanExtant]

JNoSol, you nailed it exactly, what is too much? BMW answers that for you. They put the warning out, in the manual, clear as day, just as any good attorney would advise them to do so, to allow them to deny warranty if they so choose. You may not have known people to have had warranty work denied from something as we've talked, but it has happened. BMW is a business, they make money, not wastelessly shell it out to repair vehicles belonging to people who have abused them. If you believe otherwise, that is your undoing. Next time you get to speak with someone of any standing from BMW Corporate, I suggest you strike up a conversation about it. One last thing about that little warning they put in the manual, it says WEAR, not manufacturer defect. Wear and tear is NOT COVERED under warranty. Lawyers catch people in the wording. Know what to look for when trying to decide if you'll come out ahead of one.

[tastelid]

Those lines in the manual do seem to clearly be an escape hatch for bmw.

[JNoSol]

@UrbanExtant Yep, the language is in there to protect BMW against "extreme" cases. (idiots doing burnouts in Walmart's parking lots)

However, there's not one BMW owner ever reported a warranty claim denial with a stock motor using LC. If you read other posts, it's all subjective and hearsay. No one ever seen a documentation that explains the limitation of using BMW's LC. Some said 30, some said 7, and some claim they work for BMW. Still, no proof of any cases or documentation.

With that said, just enjoy your BMW. I wouldn't worry about BMW voiding the warranty for enjoying the car in an adult manner. BMW's brand image is the "ultimate driving machine," not "we will void your warranty if you enjoy our cars too much." I tracked the crap out of my F80. BMW service knows that I did, I even took it in for a set of brakes with my racer number on the window. Brakes were free of charge, 1st set on the house.


I had an EVO IX in college. What a nightmare around warranty. Those guys will do everything possible to not pay for any warranty claim. That's why I will never buy a Mitsubishi again in my lifetime and will convince others to stay away as well. You see, BMW would never want that PR.

[UrbanExtant]

Originally Posted by JNoSol

@UrbanExtant Yep, the language is in there to protect BMW against "extreme" cases. (idiots doing burnouts in Walmart's parking lots)

However, there's not one BMW owner ever reported a warranty claim denial with a stock motor using LC. If you read other posts, it's all subjective and hearsay. No one ever seen a documentation that explains the limitation of using BMW's LC. Some said 30, some said 7, and some claim they work for BMW. Still, no proof of any cases or documentation.

With that said, just enjoy your BMW. I wouldn't worry about BMW voiding the warranty for enjoying the car in an adult manner. BMW's brand image is the "ultimate driving machine," not "we will void your warranty if you enjoy our cars too much." I tracked the crap out of my F80. BMW service knows that I did, I even took it in for a set of brakes with my racer number on the window. Brakes were free of charge, 1st set on the house.


I had an EVO IX in college. What a nightmare around warranty. Those guys will do everything possible to not pay for any warranty claim. That's why I will never buy a Mitsubishi again in my lifetime and will convince others to stay away as well. You see, BMW would never want that PR.

Not worried about my BMW. We are fairly well connected, and if something happens, it will be repaired, no questions asked. With that said, my doubt is you're privy to certain information. My original post simply advised they DO track launch control, in order to decide later, if they want to cover an expensive repair. They also track all sorts of other information they use to decide how to approach warranty repairs. Local techs don't have access to all of this. When your car is hooked to the computer at the dealership, BMW computers across the planet, almost always involving Spartanburg and Germany, read all sorts of data that is not given to your local dealership. Ask me how I know... I've been told, and I've witnessed it firsthand. I've been in conference calls with Germany and Spartanburg as they pull, place, and tinker with all data imaginable in a vehicle.

I'll leave this discussion where I started it, stating they track these things, and their lawyers are smart. Don't be surprised if you're denied warranty one day for something you were certain was complete hogwash.

Best of wishes to you.

[AlexLou1222]

I read other forum that one guy did a hard launch on his M6 at the stop light, resulting a broken driveshaft, and warranty was voided... Can't remember or find the forum but its a scary story :/

[JNoSol]

Originally Posted by AlexLou1222

I read other forum that one guy did a hard launch on his M6 at the stop light, resulting a broken driveshaft, and warranty was voided... Can't remember or find the forum but its a scary story :/

I would doubt his warranty is voided, if the motor is stock and he's not running slick tires. This is another fisherman story.

The only story that came close is the F80 with JB4, Pure Turbo, and slicks snapped the axle after using LC and BMW didn't cover it. He then replaced it with the 1200HP rated TPG axles.