2014 35i vs 35d

[Shaw]

Originally Posted by Jenya B

plus electric steering wheel , wich is consume much less HP from engine

So E70 didn't have electric steering?

[Jenya B]

Originally Posted by Shaw

So E70 didn't have electric steering?

NOPE , hydro powered steering

[Kzang]

And BMW is getting a lot of heat from some enthusiasts and most car magazine's reviewing the F15 about the lack of road feedback feeling from the electric steering..

[Clifton]

The new diesel and 8spd is a champ. The usable torque in the low revs is perfect for what you need around town and/or interstate. A slight touch of the throttle moves the hog without effort - doesn't even need to kick-down or make things dramatic.

The 35i is a great motor, but I don't think it fits the character of a truck/SAV.

If gas mileage is truly not of concern then I would opt for the 50i or wait to see the M offerings.

For me the diesel was the perfect balance of performance/size/fuel efficiency. It is getting better mileage across the board (city, highway, mix) than my previous 328i (e90) which was smaller, lighter and had similar h-power.

GO DIESEL FOR THE WIN!!!

[Shaw]

Originally Posted by Clifton

The new diesel and 8spd is a champ. The usable torque in the low revs is perfect for what you need around town and/or interstate. A slight touch of the throttle moves the hog without effort - doesn't even need to kick-down or make things dramatic.

The 35i is a great motor, but I don't think it fits the character of a truck/SAV.

If gas mileage is truly not of concern then I would opt for the 50i or wait to see the M offerings.

For me the diesel was the perfect balance of performance/size/fuel efficiency. It is getting better mileage across the board (city, highway, mix) than my previous 328i (e90) which was smaller, lighter and had similar h-power.

GO DIESEL FOR THE WIN!!!

+1

[Michiganian]

35d has been consistently around 30-31 mpg with majority highway. Hit 32 on a long trip, but haven't yet had a summer weather trip with no extended idling that comes with winter driving.

[42pilot]

Originally Posted by Zipforia

Diesels will give you only better low end torque. Overall, gasoline will give you better performance.

If performance is what you're looking for, and, again, fuel economy isn't your concern, 35i will give you an edge over diesel.

On a side note, have you considered 50i? 0-60 in 4.3 sec. Now, that's performance!

Z.

Sorry, but the statement "gasoline will give you better performance" makes no sense to me.

In what way is it better?

At 413 ft lbs of torque, the diesel is higher performance in terms of numbers. And keep in mind, HP is nothing without torque (you can't even measure HP without torque because HP is defined as work over time - or rate). And how could Audi keep kicking everyones ass at 24 Hours of LeMans if diesel wasn't performance oriented? Do you know there are small airplanes with diesel engines because of their superior performance? Do you know diesel is a more efficient fuel than gasoline per unit of measure?

But back to this vehicle - hooked up to the 8 sp tranny, this car is always in the power band. That's performance - not to mention, the handling is pretty awesome for a 5,000 lb car. Add 29 mpg around town and the "performance" keeps improving.

To be clear, the 3L gasser is a great motor too, but it's not better in "performance" - it's a personal choice.

For your info, I traded my 2011 F10 550i (400 hp and 440 ft lbs of torque) for the diesel. That was one hell of a motor, but it didn't get 29 mpg around town and it cost $8k more than the 3L turbo model. However, there is only 27 ft lbs difference in torque, so I didn't give up much "performance".

Sorry for the rant...

[Socal2025]

Originally Posted by Clifton

The new diesel and 8spd is a champ. The usable torque in the low revs is perfect for what you need around town and/or interstate. A slight touch of the throttle moves the hog without effort - doesn't even need to kick-down or make things dramatic.

The 35i is a great motor, but I don't think it fits the character of a truck/SAV.

If gas mileage is truly not of concern then I would opt for the 50i or wait to see the M offerings.

For me the diesel was the perfect balance of performance/size/fuel efficiency. It is getting better mileage across the board (city, highway, mix) than my previous 328i (e90) which was smaller, lighter and had similar h-power.

GO DIESEL FOR THE WIN!!!

+1

[Zipforia]

Originally Posted by 42pilot

Sorry, but the statement "gasoline will give you better performance" makes no sense to me.

In what way is it better?

Really? It makes no sense to you? Are we talking about the same BMW models? Because when I go on BMWNA website, and look up the specs for 35i and 35d, I see a 0-60 time of 6.2 and 6.7 respectively under Performance section.

http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...fications.aspx

http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...fications.aspx

Originally Posted by 42pilot

413 ft lbs of torque, the diesel is higher performance in terms of numbers.

No...the diesel has more torque, in terms of numbers. Not performance. As I referred you above, BMW states that the 35i (the gasoline) has better performance vs. the 35d (diesel).

Originally Posted by 42pilot

And keep in mind, HP is nothing without torque (you can't even measure HP without torque because HP is defined as work over time - or rate).

HP is nothing with torque? Like HP owes torque some sort of debt of gratitude? Yes, HP is a rate: Torque per time. So, does this mean HP is nothing without time either? C'mon!

Let me break it down for you. Both HP and torque are measure of work, except HP is measured over a time. And when the engine produces a certain number of torque (33,000 ft. lbs.) in a 1 minute period, it's said to have 1 HP. Torque, on the other hand, is measured only in force. How much force it takes to twist something regardless of time. So, they are essentially the same thing (work). So, don't tell me HP is nothing without torque, when they both measurements of work.

Originally Posted by 42pilot

And how could Audi keep kicking everyones ass at 24 Hours of LeMans if diesel wasn't performance oriented? Do you know there are small airplanes with diesel engines because of their superior performance?

I never said diesel wasn't performance oriented. All I did was compared 35i vs 35d in terms of speed performance. In this situation, gasoline engine outperforms diesel, as I referred BMW's stats above. And, since you mentioned auto racing, which auto racing is considered by many to be the pinnacle of technology and performance? F1. When was the last time a diesel won this? Never. Why? Because diesel are not allowed...or better yet, not used even if it was allowed. This is because the characteristics of torque production. Torque will come on fast from a standstill. Faster than HP in lower band of the RPM. But, generally speaking, after few thousand RPMs, will only be able to maintain its maximum torque further up the RPM bands, then, degrade at higher bands of the RPMs. This is generally not true with HP. HP will, although come on slower in lower bands of the RPM, will continue to rise all the way up to the higher bands of the RPM. F1 cars run at 18000 RPM. Which engine do you think the F1 teams are going to choose?

You mention small airplanes and performance. I agree with you. There are number of small planes with diesel engines that are performance oriented. But when I think of small prop driven performance airplanes, I think of Red Bull Air Races. Which engine do most of these airplanes use? Lycoming gasoline engines. I wonder why?

Originally Posted by 42pilot

Do you know diesel is a more efficient fuel than gasoline per unit of measure?

Yes. I know.

Originally Posted by 42pilot

But back to this vehicle - hooked up to the 8 sp tranny, this car is always in the power band. That's performance - not to mention, the handling is pretty awesome for a 5,000 lb car.

So...from this point on, I'm assuming you've switched from speed "performance" to vehicle "performance," such as engine and transmission characteristics and vehicle weight distribution and handling. With that said, so is the gasoline engine. Always in the power band (Sport and Sport+ Modes). I would say the handling is very similar, if not same, between the two models.

Originally Posted by 42pilot

Add 29 mpg around town and the "performance" keeps improving.

I would have to give this one to the diesel. But this isn't what we're talking about.

Originally Posted by 42pilot

To be clear, the 3L gasser is a great motor too, but it's not better in "performance" - it's a personal choice.

Again, this depends on what type of "performance" we're talking about. In my original post, I was referring to the same "Performance" stats the BMW website posted. And since you commented on my post, I would assume you were talking about the same "performance" I was talking about. If this is the case, BMW and I beg to differ. 35i had better "performance" than 35d.

Originally Posted by 42pilot

For your info, I traded my 2011 F10 550i (400 hp and 440 ft lbs of torque) for the diesel. That was one hell of a motor, but it didn't get 29 mpg around town and it cost $8k more than the 3L turbo model. However, there is only 27 ft lbs difference in torque, so I didn't give up much "performance".

You're comparing speed "performance" to vehicle "performance" here. Sure, if you consider mpg as part of vehicle "performance," then gasoline F10 wouldn't fair well. However, if you compared speed "performance" of gasoline F10 vs diesel F10, which do you think will have less 0-60 time? And you say you only lost 27 ft. lbs. of torque? How much did you lose in HP? Over 100. I wouldn't call that "giving up much in "performance"."

Originally Posted by 42pilot

Sorry for the rant...

Don't apologize for the "rant." That's what we're here to do.

Z.

[Socal2025]

Great explanation Zipforia. You and 42pilot both have great informative points. However, the conclusion is obvious: the word "performance" does not really mean anything after all. Correct me if I am wrong but it seems to me that it comes down to looking at the numbers independently: fuel consumption, 0-30, 0-60, 60-90mph, torque, HP, engine longevity, emissions, lag etc. The 35i and the 35d "perform" better than each other in individual categories but it's almost impossible to lump together all categories and shoot for a "performance comparison." Clearly these engines operate so differently from each other that it would be a fool's errand to compare the two for the best "performance."

If we rely on BMW's definition of "performance" then we have practically identical vehicles, but we all know that there's much more to be considered than just 0-60 mph.

Performance
35d
Top speed (limited electronically) 130 mph
Acceleration 0-60 mph 6.7 sec

Performance
35i
Top speed (limited electronically) 130 mph
Acceleration 0-60 mph 6.2 sec

[Zipforia]

Hey Socal,

Yeah...I think the OP should've been a little more specific as to what he meant by "performance." Because most gasoline engine buyers tend to look for acceleration as "performance." While most diesel buyers look for mpg as their "performance." So here we are, gasoline buyers and diesel buyers comparing each others "performance" to one another. What a headache.

Z.

[Shaw]

this is a great discussion coming from all folks...very informative as well...
I've never driven a 50i to be able to compare...(only 35i and 35d)
Having driven diesel cars in Europe over the course of 10 years or so, I can say that Diesel engines have come a long way!!!
I bought my first three cars in gasoline (after 10 years of Diesel driving)... BMW f25 (X3), Chevy Equinox and BMW F30 (328xi)...to be honest, I was not impressed with fuel consumption of any of these cars (again) compared to the Diesel that I was used to...
In terms of performance, lag and other stuff? well I admit that I'm no track racer or Fast & Furious driver, but for me, the Diesel cars I drove in Europe were as good as the gas models I drove here... no noise, solid engine, extremely low maintenance, fast and good power (specially that I drove long distances and over haul commutes on regular bases all across Europe)... now the extreme downside is the gasoline consumption. So for me suddenly changing to 3 gasoline cars after 10 years, I was shocked with the consumptions...these cars just devour gasoline...
I couldn't take it....so I got rid of the first two (X3 and Chevy),...
The F15 consumes almost as my little F30 sedan!!!
This is a big deal for most commuters I guess...
Now from a non mechanical point of view (that's me!), I see an excellent ride, super quite engine, awesome acceleration when I need it, low consumption, cleaner to environment,...this car is a completely different ball game to any previous diesel vehicle IMO (I've driven BMW, Opel, Mercedes and Audi diesel cars in Europe)
Note that Diesel is rapidly picking up in NorAm and it is still lagging what Europe is already used to...

[Shaw]

Also, some folks discuss the lag in this car (Diesel) and that it has due to with it being diesel and all....my opinion is that if I'm selecting an X5, quickest of accelerations isn't on top of my 5 priorities to begin with...this is a few tons vehicle and obviously desire of having 0-100km (0-60mph) of 6.2 vs.6.7 doesn't change anything for 99.9% of us out there...; with a 35i, I can only get to the maximum speed limit of 100km by 0.5 sec sooner
The other side of the coin though is Diesel's significant improvement on everyday costs associated to fuel as well as being a smidgen more environmental friendly than gasoline, lower maintenance,...
So i personally think I can live with the 0.5 sec of difference between 35i-35d (0-60mph) in exchange of all the other improvements it brings in other departments...

[Zipforia]

I can already see Part 2 of this thread: Diesel vs. Electric.

Electric guys will say, "more "mpgs," no fossil fuel, oh...and that torque!"

Z.

[midlifecrisis]

I picked up my X5 35d at the Performance Center last week and I've put 1500 miles on it already.

It's my 6th BMW, and the most impressive in many ways. The powertrain is incredibly smooth, powerful, and efficient. On mostly highway driving I'm getting 33 mpg indicated. I passed the break-in period today and was able to feel the full pull of all that torque. It's very satisfying.

For those of you who haven't tried the 35d, you owe it to yourself to do so.

[Kzang]

Nothing new... same discussion is going on here http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=757327 with the same diesel diehards that lurk and post here..

Same discussion was happening on the E70 forums several years ago.. http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...ghlight=diesel

I recall the 35i guys saying ours is better because we have 8 speed transmission and the diesels didn't... then the diesel guys would respond saying they would dislike or it would not be efficient for a diesel because the 8 speed transmission would be always be searching for the right gear and the engine would not need so many gears due to the high torque.

Fast forward to today and all the diesel fanbois are welcoming the new 8 speed transmission...

Guys this is a BMW forum... we all drive a BMW regardless of the engine type... There is no reason for anyone to persuade any other individual to purchase a Diesel or a Gas version of our X5's unless you guys are insecure about your own purchase decision. I think both engines are good and both serve different drivers...

[lovec1990]

^^this, but i think if you dont tow or/and drive much 35i would be best choice

[Socal2025]

Originally Posted by Zipforia

I can already see Part 2 of this thread: Diesel vs. Electric.

Electric guys will say, "more "mpgs," no fossil fuel, oh...and that torque!"

Z.

LOL. That is so true. I think we ought to enjoy our gas/diesel engines while they last because the trend seems to be gearing towards electric cars for the future. Even the X5 is unavailing its hybrid version.

[Roundown]

Originally Posted by 42pilot

Sorry, but the statement "gasoline will give you better performance" makes no sense to me.

In what way is it better?

At 413 ft lbs of torque, the diesel is higher performance in terms of numbers. And keep in mind, HP is nothing without torque (you can't even measure HP without torque because HP is defined as work over time - or rate). And how could Audi keep kicking everyones ass at 24 Hours of LeMans if diesel wasn't performance oriented? Do you know there are small airplanes with diesel engines because of their superior performance? Do you know diesel is a more efficient fuel than gasoline per unit of measure?

But back to this vehicle - hooked up to the 8 sp tranny, this car is always in the power band. That's performance - not to mention, the handling is pretty awesome for a 5,000 lb car. Add 29 mpg around town and the "performance" keeps improving.

To be clear, the 3L gasser is a great motor too, but it's not better in "performance" - it's a personal choice.

For your info, I traded my 2011 F10 550i (400 hp and 440 ft lbs of torque) for the diesel. That was one hell of a motor, but it didn't get 29 mpg around town and it cost $8k more than the 3L turbo model. However, there is only 27 ft lbs difference in torque, so I didn't give up much "performance".

Sorry for the rant...

This is great- imagine, at the limit, a motor that makes 5000lb/ft at a max RPM of 100... how 'fast' do you think that feels? ...lightening fast... for about 6 feet.