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      Yesterday, 01:00 PM   #45
NemesisX
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Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps View Post
I don't know about Ferraris, but the average car price in 1970 according to Google was around $23k in todays money. Average car today is around $36k. So it has gone up, but also a lot more tech and what not in cars.

I also wonder how much of that higher average is just because people choose to buy more expensive cars. I mean around here BMWs and Mercedes are like corollas. Was everyone in 1970 driving around in BMWs and Mercedes?
Good points. Wonder if we can find data for the median car.

Another way to think about it is if you want a basic A to B car with air conditioning, good gas mileage, low (relative) maintenance costs, and good reliability, how much would such a car cost in 1970 versus right now?

Right now I'm basically describing a used Honda Civic or Toyota Corolla.

It's hard to do this comparison directly because suppose the typical Econo-box that I'm describing lasted, on average, 100,000 miles before becoming prohibitively expensive to fix (and therefore unusable).

Now suppose a 2010 Honda Civic can last till 175,000 miles. It's reasonable then to compare a used 2010 Honda Civic with 75,000 miles to a brand new Econo-box of the 1970s.
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      Yesterday, 01:02 PM   #46
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average or median?

Average 23K car in the 1970s is lol worthy... dude i recall in the mid 90s... you could buy accords and camrys fully loaded for 25k... and thats about as middle of the pack as you can get.
According to my Google search it was average.

"In 1970 the average new car cost around 3,542 dollars, and a gallon of gas went for 36. cents."

If I run that through an inflation calculator to 2020 it says "23,405.41".

Obviously not a scientific study
ok inflation adjusted that makes sense...

but think about the sole fact that median us income is still around 50k and average transaction price is close to 36k... that seems nuts to me considering w corona; we just saw most people dont have more than 2 mo ths of savings
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      Yesterday, 01:05 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NemesisX View Post
Good points. Wonder if we can find data for the median car.

Another way to think about it is if you want a basic A to B car with air conditioning, good gas mileage, low (relative) maintenance costs, and good reliability, how much would such a car cost in 1970 versus right now?

Right now I'm basically describing a used Honda Civic or Toyota Corolla.

It's hard to do this comparison directly because suppose the typical Econo-box that I'm describing lasted, on average, 100,000 miles before becoming prohibitively expensive to fix (and therefore unusable).

Now suppose a 2010 Honda Civic can last till 175,000 miles. It's reasonable then to compare a used 2010 Honda Civic with 75,000 miles to a brand new Econo-box of the 1970s.
This site lists car prices from 1970. Of course I have no idea what the Honda Civic equivalent is from that list.

http://www.thepeoplehistory.com/70scars.html

I bought my corolla new for like $17-$18k and honestly for a "regular" car I couldn't ask for more. Even has more advanced safety features like lane keep assist, adaptive cruise, blind spot monitoring etc.
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      Yesterday, 01:06 PM   #48
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ok inflation adjusted that makes sense...

but think about the sole fact that median us income is still around 50k and average transaction price is close to 36k... that seems nuts to me considering w corona; we just saw most people dont have more than 2 mo ths of savings
Yeah what I find most surprising is how much people made back then. I would also be curious what the average job was back then vs now.
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      Yesterday, 01:43 PM   #49
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I'm not surprised by the TINY HOME movement. If I weren't so set on having elbow room and a small piece of property to hangout when I'm outside, I would even consider one.

It would look great next to my BMW
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      Yesterday, 02:09 PM   #50
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Maybe - the reason is this?
https://usdebtclock.org/
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      Yesterday, 02:25 PM   #51
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You just said something very telling... demand needs to be driven down in major metro areas like Miami.

How can that happen? I can think of 2 things off the top of my head-

1) More people need to have the ability to wfh... if I think of the downtown metro area; I imagine many would not live there if their job didn't force them to. The us govt needs to incentivize this to companies with some sort of tax credits etc. This would limit congestion in general as well. Thats a country wide problem tho not just Miami alone...

2) Put in legislation in very congested areas that limits people purchasing strictly to invest... i.e... if you own more than one condo in this area; you need to physically live in one... not just purchase to rent or if you rent; you can only rent for a max number of years before you are forced to sell or have to move in yourself.
There will always be demand near the water and nightlife, at least until the flooding gets to the point no one wants to be there. That will push up prices in those areas regardless of WFH.

Tax incentives for WFH will be portrayed as corporate welfare with no one to pay for it. Low-wage workers who have no choice but to go to a service job see no financial benefit while corporations receive tax benefits. I can hear Pelosi now. Then thereís people like me who already WFH wondering why we arenít seeing some benefit. Ultimately, if WFH goes anywhere it will be because companies have other cost savings (like rent and lower salaries by telling people they donít need to commute) and can make it work. Tax incentives alone wonít force the issue.

As far as limiting purchasers, doubtful that would happen, but if it does it would reduce new development / supply of the same quality if developers canít sell at prices they want.
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      Yesterday, 02:38 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
You just said something very telling... demand needs to be driven down in major metro areas like Miami.

How can that happen? I can think of 2 things off the top of my head-

1) More people need to have the ability to wfh... if I think of the downtown metro area; I imagine many would not live there if their job didn't force them to. The us govt needs to incentivize this to companies with some sort of tax credits etc. This would limit congestion in general as well. Thats a country wide problem tho not just Miami alone...

2) Put in legislation in very congested areas that limits people purchasing strictly to invest... i.e... if you own more than one condo in this area; you need to physically live in one... not just purchase to rent or if you rent; you can only rent for a max number of years before you are forced to sell or have to move in yourself.
There will always be demand near the water and nightlife, at least until the flooding gets to the point no one wants to be there. That will push up prices in those areas regardless of WFH.

Tax incentives for WFH will be portrayed as corporate welfare with no one to pay for it. Low-wage workers who have no choice but to go to a service job see no financial benefit while corporations receive tax benefits. I can hear Pelosi now. Then there’s people like me who already WFH wondering why we aren’t seeing some benefit. Ultimately, if WFH goes anywhere it will be because companies have other cost savings (like rent and lower salaries by telling people they don’t need to commute) and can make it work. Tax incentives alone won’t force the issue.

As far as limiting purchasers, doubtful that would happen, but if it does it would reduce new development / supply of the same quality if developers can’t sell at prices they want.
Dude, did you really use the words corporate welfare? If the last 3 months, havent proved that we love in a corporate welfare state; I don't know what will.

I would argue this would give Pelosi secondary swinging points related to the liberal environmental agenda which goes along with reducing emissions and lowering dependence on foreign oil due to lowered demand... my plan at least attempts to resolve numerous issues that will work for everyone... how one could argue that is beyond me.
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      Yesterday, 02:49 PM   #53
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Dude, did you really use the words corporate welfare? If the last 3 months, havent proved that we love in a corporate welfare state; I don't know what will.

I would argue this would give Pelosi secondary swinging points related to the liberal environmental agenda which goes along with reducing emissions and lowering dependence on foreign oil due to lowered demand... my plan at least attempts to resolve numerous issues that will work for everyone... how one could argue that is beyond me.
Good luck with your plan. Sounds like you are confident everyone will be on board.
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      Yesterday, 03:12 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
You just said something very telling... demand needs to be driven down in major metro areas like Miami.

How can that happen? I can think of 2 things off the top of my head-

1) More people need to have the ability to wfh... if I think of the downtown metro area; I imagine many would not live there if their job didn't force them to. The us govt needs to incentivize this to companies with some sort of tax credits etc. This would limit congestion in general as well. Thats a country wide problem tho not just Miami alone...

2) Put in legislation in very congested areas that limits people purchasing strictly to invest... i.e... if you own more than one condo in this area; you need to physically live in one... not just purchase to rent or if you rent; you can only rent for a max number of years before you are forced to sell or have to move in yourself.
On your #2 point, that's hardly going to affect anything. In the DC area, you see people get into flipping which your proposal does zero for. What should happen in all congested areas is zero additional housing units until there is an infrastructure plan that includes proper transportation before any of those units are started. This whole area did the we'll let the builders and developers run crazy and maybe someone else later will do the hard work and deal with the transportation. Instead we get study/commission after study/commission talking about what could be done without any action and this has been for decades.
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      Yesterday, 03:17 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by ASAP View Post
You just said something very telling... demand needs to be driven down in major metro areas like Miami.

How can that happen? I can think of 2 things off the top of my head-

1) More people need to have the ability to wfh... if I think of the downtown metro area; I imagine many would not live there if their job didn't force them to. The us govt needs to incentivize this to companies with some sort of tax credits etc. This would limit congestion in general as well. Thats a country wide problem tho not just Miami alone...

2) Put in legislation in very congested areas that limits people purchasing strictly to invest... i.e... if you own more than one condo in this area; you need to physically live in one... not just purchase to rent or if you rent; you can only rent for a max number of years before you are forced to sell or have to move in yourself.
On your #2 point, that's hardly going to affect anything. In the DC area, you see people get into flipping which your proposal does zero for. What should happen in all congested areas is zero additional housing units until there is an infrastructure plan that includes proper transportation before any of those units are started. This whole area did the we'll let the builders and developers run crazy and maybe someone else later will do the hard work and deal with the transportation. Instead we get study/commission after study/commission talking about what could be done without any action and this has been for decades.
I agree with you on that point albeit I think my point would do wonders for an area like Miami. A lot of the condos are foreign owned... i don't see people living outside of the area wanting to flip left and right... thats a massive nuisance and for a person out of country having to manage renters etc etc, it becomes a headache. All else aside, this would consistently free up inventory and you would have more on sale in the open market. This by default would have to affect prices.
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      Yesterday, 04:08 PM   #56
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GenXer what is your housing situation? Are you looking? Already own? Looking to sell? Just making observations on the market?

I’d be more interested in comparing $/ft vs local median household income to that of earlier times. I find it ridiculous when comments are made that someone is financially unstable if you cannot afford housing making $55k/year. That number is significantly different from southern California or NYC vs middle of nowhere Iowa. We make more than that and I still think it’s nuts what you get for your money. Although we may not be looking to max out our pre-approval like most

In my area, a nice home in a nice area comes out to about $190-$200/ft, but the median is closer to $140/ft. I’ll tell you, you do NOT want to live in this town at that price. Median household income is about $50k.
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      Today, 04:51 AM   #57
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I think you forgot to divide by two.
https://www.russellsage.org/sites/al...20Earnings.pdf
https://www.census.gov/library/publi...mo/p60-78.html
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