Engine cranks but won't start

[bjluczyk]

Hi,

I have an 2015 X35i with 66k miles. I wanted to see if anyone else has experienced a similar issue in the cold weather this week. Here in Wisconsin the temperatures for the past couple of days have been in the -15 to -20 deg F range. The car has started up fine each morning (it's garaged at home) and after sitting at work during the day. However, twice the car wouldn't start after sitting for only 15-20 minutes while I made a quick stop on the way home after work. The car was warmed up in both cases, so I was surprised it gave me a problem when it did.

The car would crank, but then would either fire up and immediately die, or not fire up at all. This was followed by a "Drivetrain Malfunction" error. The first time it happened, I powered down the car and let it sit for a couple of minutes. The car then started fine, and there were no errors shown. The second time (next day) I had to let the car sit for an hour after a number of attempts to start it. I was resigned to calling for a tow but thought I'd try one more time. What do you know, the car started right up and I drove home with no issue. The check control showed all systems OK, but the check engine light is illuminated on the dash.

Has anyone else experienced this problem in the extreme cold? I'm wondering if this is just a transient problem that will go away now that the temperatures are coming up, or if there is a real problem somewhere in the system. Could a weak battery cause this, even though the starter was cranking fine? From reading here, it sounds like the most common cause of these symptoms is an issue with the fuel pump, or one of the sensors or relays related to fuel delivery.

[RED_Y_]

It would probably go away as it gets warmer but just to be safe, I would read the CEL error code.

[redline9001]

Have you ever changed your battery ? Do you have a battery tender ? If you have a tender put it on over night and see if that helps

[CatalinP]

You need to read the error codes using ISTA+ in order to find out the culprit.

[brevets10000]

Originally Posted by bjluczyk

Hi,

I have an 2015 X35i with 66k miles. I wanted to see if anyone else has experienced a similar issue in the cold weather this week. Here in Wisconsin the temperatures for the past couple of days have been in the -15 to -20 deg F range. The car has started up fine each morning (it's garaged at home) and after sitting at work during the day. However, twice the car wouldn't start after sitting for only 15-20 minutes while I made a quick stop on the way home after work. The car was warmed up in both cases, so I was surprised it gave me a problem when it did.

The car would crank, but then would either fire up and immediately die, or not fire up at all. This was followed by a "Drivetrain Malfunction" error. The first time it happened, I powered down the car and let it sit for a couple of minutes. The car then started fine, and there were no errors shown. The second time (next day) I had to let the car sit for an hour after a number of attempts to start it. I was resigned to calling for a tow but thought I'd try one more time. What do you know, the car started right up and I drove home with no issue. The check control showed all systems OK, but the check engine light is illuminated on the dash.

Has anyone else experienced this problem in the extreme cold? I'm wondering if this is just a transient problem that will go away now that the temperatures are coming up, or if there is a real problem somewhere in the system. Could a weak battery cause this, even though the starter was cranking fine? From reading here, it sounds like the most common cause of these symptoms is an issue with the fuel pump, or one of the sensors or relays related to fuel delivery.

any water in the fuel at those temps could cause some crazy issues, who knows. Could have pumped just enough into the filter to freeze a bit while it sat

[turboawd]

Sounds like perhaps a fuel issue. I'd read the code first. You could stop by an auto zone, O'Reilly, or advance auto to get your code read, if you don't have a reader.

[bjluczyk]

Thanks for the suggestions. I think I will put a battery tender on it tonight, just to make sure it has a full charge, then get the codes read out as soon as I can. I drove the car for a couple of hours yesterday, so I would have thought the battery was topped up. Of course, I was running the seat and steering wheel heaters the entire time, and it is still on the original battery.

[DonJuan]

Originally Posted by bjluczyk

Thanks for the suggestions. I think I will put a battery tender on it tonight, just to make sure it has a full charge, then get the codes read out as soon as I can. I drove the car for a couple of hours yesterday, so I would have thought the battery was topped up. Of course, I was running the seat and steering wheel heaters the entire time, and it is still on the original battery.

Sounds like a fuel pump gone bad.

[jelt110]

Originally Posted by bjluczyk

Hi,

I have an 2015 X35i with 66k miles. I wanted to see if anyone else has experienced a similar issue in the cold weather this week. Here in Wisconsin the temperatures for the past couple of days have been in the -15 to -20 deg F range. The car has started up fine each morning (it's garaged at home) and after sitting at work during the day. However, twice the car wouldn't start after sitting for only 15-20 minutes while I made a quick stop on the way home after work. The car was warmed up in both cases, so I was surprised it gave me a problem when it did.

The car would crank, but then would either fire up and immediately die, or not fire up at all. This was followed by a "Drivetrain Malfunction" error. The first time it happened, I powered down the car and let it sit for a couple of minutes. The car then started fine, and there were no errors shown. The second time (next day) I had to let the car sit for an hour after a number of attempts to start it. I was resigned to calling for a tow but thought I'd try one more time. What do you know, the car started right up and I drove home with no issue. The check control showed all systems OK, but the check engine light is illuminated on the dash.

Has anyone else experienced this problem in the extreme cold? I'm wondering if this is just a transient problem that will go away now that the temperatures are coming up, or if there is a real problem somewhere in the system. Could a weak battery cause this, even though the starter was cranking fine? From reading here, it sounds like the most common cause of these symptoms is an issue with the fuel pump, or one of the sensors or relays related to fuel delivery.

This is EXACTLY what I had, two instances. When you activate the bluetooth the engine starts! Exactly the same problem, same kind of parameters, environment, time.

When it warmed up- i washed the car good to get and deposits from driveline sensors. Hasn't re-occurred.

Next time it does this- hit the bluetooth after only a few tries- let me know what happens.

People told me battery voltage (I was using seat heats, steering wheel heat and the d-frogger... but it had plenty of current capacity to keep trying 20 or more times.

We just had that dry snow before the cold snap, right? I'm in NW Chicago burbs- you are probably just to the north of me (where do you hail from- I did jr/sr high in Wisconsin west of Oshkosh)

This makes me feel better- that it may be a kind of glitch rather than an individual problem.

But definitely activate the Bluetooth and try starting if you have the same issue. I'm a polymath- senior tech & engineer- the statistics of this very odd occurrence (bluetooth use overriding the false error) twice, it too rare to be random. And you just confirmed it- I swear i thought I might have drunk-blogged or something reading your description.

There were a good twenty OBDC codes too- seems they went away.

No solution, talked to the BMW tech at Patrick, he sounded dubious, but thought that if reset itself it would be okay.

I am more worried about being stranded. This bugs me. I want to re-create the event to troubleshoot...

Other than that- zero issues. Awesome car in the snow and cold, and I just have Dueler run flats. I'll switch next time and get a spare.

Thanks for reaching out!

[DuSh]

Originally Posted by jelt110

This is EXACTLY what I had, two instances. When you activate the bluetooth the engine starts! Exactly the same problem, same kind of parameters, environment, time.

Yes, but OP never mentioned anything about Bluetooth It seems to me this was fuel related for OP, but OP gave us no updates about error codes readout OP told us he/she would do.

Originally Posted by jelt110

When it warmed up- i washed the car good to get and deposits from driveline sensors. Hasn't re-occurred.

What driveline sensors? Only a few sensors (like crank sensor etc) that would prevent engine from not starting up and you won't be able to reach them even if you washed engine bay, not to mention regular exterior wash has nothing to do with engine not starting up.

Originally Posted by jelt110

There were a good twenty OBDC codes too- seems they went away.

Was IMHO worth it to wrote them down - they might have been the answer to your issue.

[jelt110]

Originally Posted by DuSh

Yes, but OP never mentioned anything about Bluetooth It seems to me this was fuel related for OP, but OP gave us no updates about error codes readout OP told us he/she would do.


What driveline sensors? Only a few sensors (like crank sensor etc) that would prevent engine from not starting up and you won't be able to reach them even if you washed engine bay, not to mention regular exterior wash has nothing to do with engine not starting up.

No idea where the sensors are, just parroting from either the board or the service guys- not sure, I was preoccupied that day... But snow and ice building up has potential for current conduction. I washed it as a simple PM action.


Was IMHO worth it to wrote them down - they might have been the answer to your issue.

There were so many variegated codes- different areas different systems, i was driving at the time... I took a few pix, You are correct that the data should be reported, and I dropped the ball-

But as I said- this points to ECU gremlins. My conjecture stands, and it stands with a fully independent conformation, another thread from a guy in Wisconsin (we share the weather usually,,)

[jelt110]

Originally Posted by DuSh

Yes, but OP never mentioned anything about Bluetooth It seems to me this was fuel related for OP, but OP gave us no updates about error codes readout OP told us he/she would do.



What driveline sensors? Only a few sensors (like crank sensor etc) that would prevent engine from not starting up and you won't be able to reach them even if you washed engine bay, not to mention regular exterior wash has nothing to do with engine not starting up.



Was IMHO worth it to wrote them down - they might have been the answer to your issue.

Understood he never mentioned bluetooth- i inferred it when he said he was ready to give up and called for help- then tried it one more time. Made sense to me having been there.


Sensors: Hey, it was -20 and i was not going to get the the ground and look! :-) I've had the x5 for about 4 months. I was going by what I had heard in general and some guesses- but i stand by my decades long hypothesis- clean equipment functions better than dirty equipment (yes, I know a few exceptions... you are welcome to dissertate them. :-) )

Yes, i should have- but i was pressed for time, and found the repeat incident to be very umm... 'special' so I lost my good sense. There were so many unrelated (seemingly) errors, I was a bit dubious as to which would be accurate.

Next time it gets -20 i'll probably have an late model 40 and it'll be stolen. Actually, I would not mind a 2016 or 2017 5.0 with factory M-sport.

(as long as they don't add extra driveline sensors...

[bjluczyk]

I was able to borrow a scanner from a friend, and pulled the following codes:

----Confirmed Trouble Codes Scan Report----
9 Confirmed Trouble Codes Trouble Codes:
1. P15D9
Check report for description.
2. P2088
"A" Camshaft Position Actuator Control Circuit Low Bank 1
3. P2090
"B" Camshaft Position Actuator Control Circuit Low Bank 1
4. P15F8
Check report for description.
5. P15ED
Check report for description.
6. P0031
HO2S Heater Control Circuit Low Bank 1 Sensor 1
7. P0343
Camshaft Position Sensor "A" Circuit High Bank 1 or Single Sensor
8. P0037
HO2S Heater Control Circuit Low Bank 1 Sensor 2
9. P0368
Camshaft Position Sensor "B" Circuit High Bank 1

These all appear to be electrical in nature.

I cleared the codes and put the battery on a tender overnight. For what it's worth, I have not had any issues with the car for the past three weeks, and the codes have not returned. Of course, it has not been nearly as cold either.

I'm not sure what else I can do at this point. I could replace the battery proactively, but given the cost of battery replacement, I'd want to know that the battery is at the root of the problem. Or, I could decide not to drive the X5 if the temperature is below -15 F. I thought that I was taking my newest, most reliable car, but perhaps the electrical systems are just too delicate in these rolling computers.

[bjluczyk]

Originally Posted by jelt110

This is EXACTLY what I had, two instances. When you activate the bluetooth the engine starts! Exactly the same problem, same kind of parameters, environment, time.

When it warmed up- i washed the car good to get and deposits from driveline sensors. Hasn't re-occurred.

Next time it does this- hit the bluetooth after only a few tries- let me know what happens.

People told me battery voltage (I was using seat heats, steering wheel heat and the d-frogger... but it had plenty of current capacity to keep trying 20 or more times.

We just had that dry snow before the cold snap, right? I'm in NW Chicago burbs- you are probably just to the north of me (where do you hail from- I did jr/sr high in Wisconsin west of Oshkosh)

This makes me feel better- that it may be a kind of glitch rather than an individual problem.

But definitely activate the Bluetooth and try starting if you have the same issue. I'm a polymath- senior tech & engineer- the statistics of this very odd occurrence (bluetooth use overriding the false error) twice, it too rare to be random. And you just confirmed it- I swear i thought I might have drunk-blogged or something reading your description.

There were a good twenty OBDC codes too- seems they went away.

No solution, talked to the BMW tech at Patrick, he sounded dubious, but thought that if reset itself it would be okay.

I am more worried about being stranded. This bugs me. I want to re-create the event to troubleshoot...

Other than that- zero issues. Awesome car in the snow and cold, and I just have Dueler run flats. I'll switch next time and get a spare.

Thanks for reaching out!

I just read your other post. It sounds like our X5s are twins and similarly possessed! I'll have to test your hypothesis if I run into the problem again in the future. I was assuming that for some reason the car didn't like the short rest after the short drive. Maybe after sitting for an hour the ECU reset itself, or the system voltage came back within normal range. I have no idea. But the thought of being stranded somewhere in -20 F is definitely a little concerning. Fortunately I was able to wait it out inside the grocery store.

I'm in the burbs west of Milwaukee. Yeah, this winter has been pretty interesting so far. When the X5 starts, it has been fantastic. Although, I must admit that I've lost a little confidence in it.

[DuSh]

Originally Posted by bjluczyk

I just read your other post. It sounds like our X5s are twins and similarly possessed! I'll have to test your hypothesis if I run into the problem again in the future. I was assuming that for some reason the car didn't like the short rest after the short drive. Maybe after sitting for an hour the ECU reset itself, or the system voltage came back within normal range. I have no idea. But the thought of being stranded somewhere in -20 F is definitely a little concerning. Fortunately I was able to wait it out inside the grocery store.

I'm in the burbs west of Milwaukee. Yeah, this winter has been pretty interesting so far. When the X5 starts, it has been fantastic. Although, I must admit that I've lost a little confidence in it.

It's clear that camshaft sensor was the cause of non start. jelt110 mentioned he had bunch of error codes too - so it essentially comes to camshaft sensor - that will not let DME initiate start sequence - it will not let spark to appear. However, it's not clear what exactly caused the sensor to temporarily stop working - was it low voltage? Was it low battery? Something that in low temps affects voltage drop? I'm not sure.
Bluetooth can prolong "on" state for dash and iDrive screen during phone calls - when car is shut off, but iDrive and some systems still work just because you are speaking on the phone. So given that speakers are "on" - that means amplifier is on too, central head unit is powered on too. So it's possible I guess that something gets "rectified" lol or some circuit gets power and car starts.

Do you guys have 2nd battery in the trunk or not? I'm just thinking maybe secondary battery activates during bluetooth calls to provide power when car is shut off and maybe that extra juice was enough to increase low voltage and car can start?

[jelt110]

Originally Posted by DuSh

It's clear that camshaft sensor was the cause of non start. jelt110 mentioned he had bunch of error codes too - so it essentially comes to camshaft sensor - that will not let DME initiate start sequence - it will not let spark to appear. However, it's not clear what exactly caused the sensor to temporarily stop working - was it low voltage? Was it low battery? Something that in low temps affects voltage drop? I'm not sure.
Bluetooth can prolong "on" state for dash and iDrive screen during phone calls - when car is shut off, but iDrive and some systems still work just because you are speaking on the phone. So given that speakers are "on" - that means amplifier is on too, central head unit is powered on too. So it's possible I guess that something gets "rectified" lol or some circuit gets power and car starts.

Do you guys have 2nd battery in the trunk or not? I'm just thinking maybe secondary battery activates during bluetooth calls to provide power when car is shut off and maybe that extra juice was enough to increase low voltage and car can start?

Great question(s)- i'll look into this this weekend if i have time. yes, I've hear that some systems get controlled via resistance (not quite sure how- I can imagine a few ways- I'm an EE among other stuff) so this makes sense.

That's why I started playing with everything- not sure what might have been tied together. I've had enough 'weird fixes' in my life to be ready to go for this kind of thing.

It'll be warmer this weekend, maybe I'll pull off a few covers while washing the beast down.

[jelt110]

Originally Posted by bjluczyk

I just read your other post. It sounds like our X5s are twins and similarly possessed! I'll have to test your hypothesis if I run into the problem again in the future. I was assuming that for some reason the car didn't like the short rest after the short drive. Maybe after sitting for an hour the ECU reset itself, or the system voltage came back within normal range. I have no idea. But the thought of being stranded somewhere in -20 F is definitely a little concerning. Fortunately I was able to wait it out inside the grocery store.

I'm in the burbs west of Milwaukee. Yeah, this winter has been pretty interesting so far. When the X5 starts, it has been fantastic. Although, I must admit that I've lost a little confidence in it.

Oh yeah. What do you have again? I've got the 2014 3.5i, with M-sport and most options. I put a Race Chip on it (second from the cheapest- I forget the nomenclature), set to 5 or 6 (whatever is max- never had a CEL).

I too lost some confidence- but I am heartened by it happening to someone else- in that this is probably not a singular event. I troubleshoot problems for a living- industrial and medical equipment- I'm exceptionally good at it- this would be fun if it was not what we rely on for transport.

Did a lot of field service and field engineering up there- went to high school west of Oshkosh. I've certified dynos for HD, safety checked stuff for American Superconductor, I used to fly out of Wilmot- but the club moved to Kenosha. Waited out a heck of front line once at Timmerman, not sure if I stopped at Waukesha...

Bicycled through there from Omro-Eureka to Chicago a number of times in the early 80s.

Thanks for your input- let's stay in touch if that is okay with you- my nephew has a pizza place in Columbus- we go there every few months for a fix.