New Control Arms!

[M302_imola]

Originally Posted by mattgu40

20in staggered setup steering have a mind of its own over road imperfections.
bushings look average and got a ball joint that seems loose.

Just ordered both front lower arms From rock auto (Moog) and powerflex poly bushings to install on the new arms. i will report on my findings once all installed and aligned.

Yeah in most cases you can't tell the integrity of these FCABs until you get them out of the housing. Make it very difficult to diagnose. How did you diagnose the loose ball joint? Def report back after the powerflex FCABs are installed.

[M302_imola]

Still getting a creaking sound from the front passenger side suspension. Not only is the sound very annoying at low speeds, at highway speeds when I'm cornering somewhat aggressive the traction control light will flicker and the car feels like it's almost out of control. Very loose and floaty feeling. So here's what I've replaced so far: upper control arm (the whole wishbone assembly), lower forward control arm (#9 on diagram) and i've recently installed BC Racing coilovers. I thought the strut or strut mount was bad making the sound is why I decided to go coilovers but looks like that wasn't the case. I've had my shop check tie rods and they said visually then look ok. Which points me into the direction of the only front control arm (#13) I haven't replaced. I guess my question would be, could a bad control arm (bushing or ball joint) cause the traction control light to flicker and the loose steering feel in corners? I know they can make the sounds I described. This issue is about to break my wallet. Trouble shooting this hasn't been cheap or fun. See diagram below

https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...59#31126864821

[Maverik259]

another multi page thread that covers what so many already have. congrat's but this really didn't require an entirely new thread. And yes this is what you get when you take a super heavy vehicle but design it to be nimble and comfy. The rubber bushings can't take the stress. They need poly-urethane. And it is a semi-simple DIY that I posted several years back that covers everything you need to know including part numbers. I'm on my 3rd set on my driver side and 2nd on my passenger. 65k miles. this last set was bought on FCP as well. didn't go OEM this time. hoping for soemthign better from another high quality brand. If its going to be free to replace, then why not go for the chaper option. Don't notice an ounce of difference.

[skoold2003]

Originally Posted by Maverik259

another multi page thread that covers what so many already have. congrat's but this really didn't require an entirely new thread. And yes this is what you get when you take a super heavy vehicle but design it to be nimble and comfy. The rubber bushings can't take the stress. They need poly-urethane. And it is a semi-simple DIY that I posted several years back that covers everything you need to know including part numbers. I'm on my 3rd set on my driver side and 2nd on my passenger. 65k miles. this last set was bought on FCP as well. didn't go OEM this time. hoping for soemthign better from another high quality brand. If its going to be free to replace, then why not go for the chaper option. Don't notice an ounce of difference.

This is the way

[M302_imola]

Originally Posted by Maverik259

another multi page thread that covers what so many already have. congrat's but this really didn't require an entirely new thread. And yes this is what you get when you take a super heavy vehicle but design it to be nimble and comfy. The rubber bushings can't take the stress. They need poly-urethane. And it is a semi-simple DIY that I posted several years back that covers everything you need to know including part numbers. I'm on my 3rd set on my driver side and 2nd on my passenger. 65k miles. this last set was bought on FCP as well. didn't go OEM this time. hoping for soemthign better from another high quality brand. If its going to be free to replace, then why not go for the chaper option. Don't notice an ounce of difference.

I hear ya and it makes sense but do the poly's not contribute to a harsher ride? Also, any squeaking?

[tlow98]

Originally Posted by M302_imola

I hear ya and it makes sense but do the poly's not contribute to a harsher ride? Also, any squeaking?

Yeah, this bushing is the same design across almost all BMWs. In my experience poly is kind of the last resort. The best answer from a performance stand point is a spherical sealed bearing. BMW uses these in the rear for many applications. When i installed aftermarket spherical units (like Dinan sells) in the front control arm on my e90 I noticed a NVH increase immediately.

The next best performance/comfort compromise option is solid rubber - like they use in the M3 applications. This also increase NVH, but not as mush as spherical units.

The poly units give me pause bc I wouldn’t want to ‘maintain’ them with grease.

After playing with the spherical units I decided I’ll just replace stockers until there is a viable M/// option as they seem to be the best compromise. I’ll keep the old arms I’m removing and just buy replacement bushings and have my local auto shop replace the bushing in the arms as they have a press. Then I’ll just continue swapping as needed since the install is really quite simple. Should be about ~$120 for all the bushings on the 4 front arms then another $50 to have them pressed out/in. Replacing the 4 arms otherwise is about $650 when using OEM Lemforder units.

Certainly open to real world experience with the poly if anyone has it tho?

[unluky]

Originally Posted by tlow98

Yeah, this bushing is the same design across almost all BMWs. In my experience poly is kind of the last resort. The best answer from a performance stand point is a spherical sealed bearing. BMW uses these in the rear for many applications. When i installed aftermarket spherical units (like Dinan sells) in the front control arm on my e90 I noticed a NVH increase immediately.

The next best performance/comfort compromise option is solid rubber - like they use in the M3 applications. This also increase NVH, but not as mush as spherical units.

The poly units give me pause bc I wouldn’t want to ‘maintain’ them with grease.

After playing with the spherical units I decided I’ll just replace stockers until there is a viable M/// option as they seem to be the best compromise. I’ll keep the old arms I’m removing and just buy replacement bushings and have my local auto shop replace the bushing in the arms as they have a press. Then I’ll just continue swapping as needed since the install is really quite simple. Should be about ~$120 for all the bushings on the 4 front arms then another $50 to have them pressed out/in. Replacing the 4 arms otherwise is about $650 when using OEM Lemforder units.

Certainly open to real world experience with the poly if anyone has it tho?

None on my X5 (yet), but I have used Poly full kits on my 300ZXTT and Z4 both. I have never had a single squeak, but I was super anal about the install grease when I did them and installed them all myself. The 300 I had for over 12 years after I poly'd it up (and I did them all - front, rear, diff, tranny, subframe - ALL poly) and I never regreased or had squeaks. Z4 I am probably 6-7 years in with the FCAB, RCAB, front sway, rear sway and zero squeaks. I did mine at the same time I dropped it on H&R's and changed to Bliz spring/struts, so I did notice a change in ride. It was a little harsher, but I put most of that on the spring/shock. It DID make the car tight as balls again, the response difference was staggering, but this car was 45K and maybe 10 years old when I bought it as a project, so I can't compare to where it was when new.

I'd do it again tomorrow. If/when my X5 needs them - I'll put them in it too. I love poly.

Just my experience though.

[tlow98]

Originally Posted by unluky

None on my X5 (yet), but I have used Poly full kits on my 300ZXTT and Z4 both. I have never had a single squeak, but I was super anal about the install grease when I did them and installed them all myself. The 300 I had for over 12 years after I poly'd it up (and I did them all - front, rear, diff, tranny, subframe - ALL poly) and I never regreased or had squeaks. Z4 I am probably 6-7 years in with the FCAB, RCAB, front sway, rear sway and zero squeaks. I did mine at the same time I dropped it on H&R's and changed to Bliz spring/struts, so I did notice a change in ride. It was a little harsher, but I put most of that on the spring/shock. It DID make the car tight as balls again, the response difference was staggering, but this car was 45K and maybe 10 years old when I bought it as a project, so I can't compare to where it was when new.

I'd do it again tomorrow. If/when my X5 needs them - I'll put them in it too. I love poly.

Just my experience though.

That's great to hear. I think there are already Poly products for the F85/6 chassis, correct? Sway bushing and something else that escapes my mind.

I've used poly for subframe reinforcement on an E90, but in this case, they are sandwiched in between rubber and the body. I wouldn't consider that to be the same use case as a 'moving' bushing, if you know what I mean. I've also used delrin for shifter bushings and that material seems to be pretty similar to poly, although, I believe delrin is a bit harder.

I'm glad to hear about your success - would you mind sharing what bushing grease you used? It's good to hear a success story, bc it seems there are a lot of mediocre success situations with poly and I'm assuming it comes down to install error.

[JamesInSJ]

On the front end, with all three arms on the front having a ball joint attached to it, unless your bushing(s) go out at lower mileage like some people have experienced, in a range of 80-100k+ miles it would make sense to replace the whole thing since the ball joints aren't usually user replaceable even with a press.

Not quite so bad on the rear end, but still two arms on each side there with ball joints.

I also have an E46 M3 and on the FCAs the few people who've sourced a ball joint and taken it to a shop with a huge press have still had problems and generally deemed it not worth it vs. Lemforder parts pricing (M3 Lemforder FCAs are literally BMW brand with the logo filed off).

[unluky]

Originally Posted by tlow98

That's great to hear. I think there are already Poly products for the F85/6 chassis, correct? Sway bushing and something else that escapes my mind.

I've used poly for subframe reinforcement on an E90, but in this case, they are sandwiched in between rubber and the body. I wouldn't consider that to be the same use case as a 'moving' bushing, if you know what I mean. I've also used delrin for shifter bushings and that material seems to be pretty similar to poly, although, I believe delrin is a bit harder.

I'm glad to hear about your success - would you mind sharing what bushing grease you used? It's good to hear a success story, bc it seems there are a lot of mediocre success situations with poly and I'm assuming it comes down to install error.

Every kit I have bought comes with the grease. It is very easy to apply. When I replaced the subframe bushings in my 300 (this requires you to jack the car up and actually remove the entire subframe then burn the old ones out with a torch and then put in the new ones and reinstall - not fun) I wanted to make 100% sure - so I also applied a little copper anti seize - but I believe it was unnecessary as none of the others ever squeaked. I could see how easy it would be for someone who didn't own the car to just slap some on and pop them in without care if you scraped some off or not. I chose to have it in hand during the install and make 100% sure everything was coated well (including me) and then wipe off the excess after everything was put back in.

I used the Energy Suspension poly on my 300 and my E85 is all PowerFlex purple series poly. Again - have not put any on my X5 yet, but at 102K I'm getting into the area where I will be fixing those type of things and will certainly poly them when I do - if the option is there.

[Nonstopjohn3]

Originally Posted by Chicane_S54

These are for the front axle also, I think we are talking about two different control arms, that are sitting right next to each other, but the ones I am showing you these are the ones that have the bushings that frequently go bad:

https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...59#31126864821

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...er-31126864821

Thank you for the link I got my x6 with 40k miles and I'm hearing this cracking noise driver side hopefully this thread helps I'll post and let you guys know if my findings/ repair

[virtualbong]

I had my thrust arm bushings replaced on both sides because I was hearing the creaking/clunking sound from what I believe is the driver side front but I am still hearing the clunking sound. Does anyone have any ideas? I am also wondering if I should take it to my private shop or have BMW diagnose...

[M302_imola]

Originally Posted by virtualbong

I had my thrust arm bushings replaced on both sides because I was hearing the creaking/clunking sound from what I believe is the driver side front but I am still hearing the clunking sound. Does anyone have any ideas? I am also wondering if I should take it to my private shop or have BMW diagnose...

I'd put money on this being your issue:

How do I know? Well I just went through hell diagnosing this myself. As you can see from the video it's not detectable to the naked eye so how do we expect BMW/or indy mechanic to catch it unless they've already diagnosed a car with this same issue. See the link below and #13 is what you'll want to replace on the side that is making the noise (which I believe you said is drivers side)
https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...59#31126864821

[virtualbong]

Originally Posted by M302_imola

I'd put money on this being your issue:

How do I know? Well I just went through hell diagnosing this myself. As you can see from the video it's not detectable to the naked eye so how do we expect BMW/or indy mechanic to catch it unless they've already diagnosed a car with this same issue. See the link below and #13 is what you'll want to replace on the side that is making the noise (which I believe you said is drivers side)
https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...59#31126864821

My only hesitation is that I do not hear a squeaky sound...it's a clunking. Maybe I can put my phone on the ground and try to replicate what he did by making the car go up and down and see if I hear anything.

Did you hear a clunking noise in the cabin when driving at low speeds? Or were you hearing a squeaky noise?

[Gkacmaz]

I have replaced both control arms in the front (13 and 8) now I'm gonna look at the stabilizer link and the tie rod and hopey clunking goes away

[M302_imola]

Originally Posted by virtualbong

My only hesitation is that I do not hear a squeaky sound...it's a clunking. Maybe I can put my phone on the ground and try to replicate what he did by making the car go up and down and see if I hear anything.

Did you hear a clunking noise in the cabin when driving at low speeds? Or were you hearing a squeaky noise?

Mine wasn't as squeaky as his, more of a clunk like yours. You'll be hard pressed to put enough weight on that side to make the sound, but you might be able to do it. I'm not sure how he duplicated the sound. Maybe 2 or 3 guys bouncing around to give it enough weight.

[virtualbong]

Originally Posted by M302_imola

Mine wasn't as squeaky as his, more of a clunk like yours. You'll be hard-pressed to put enough weight on that side to make the sound, but you might be able to do it. I'm not sure how he duplicated the sound. Maybe 2 or 3 guys bouncing around to give it enough weight.

Well, I have an appointment with my shop next Thursday. Let's see what they find. I am wondering if I should mention #13 or just see what they find.

[M302_imola]

Originally Posted by virtualbong

Well, I have an appointment with my shop next Thursday. Let's see what they find. I am wondering if I should mention #13 or just see what they find.

From my experience, mechanics like to "guess" if they don't have solid proof where the issue lies. The problem with guessing is it makes your wallet lighter and normally the issue is not resolved. I'd def mention #13. I mean the guy in the video was holding #13 in his hand and still couldn't tell it was the faulty part. Bushing looked solid and the ball joint moved freely and appeared properly greased.

[Swati01]

Hello everyone hope you’re all doing well. Sorry to repeat the same questions from the past posts but I’m just a little hesitant ordering the part I need. I’m attaching the video for reference can you point me to the correct part number I need. I’m ordering from fcpeuro and my model is 2014 x35i without active steering. Thank you in advance.

https://youtube.com/shorts/6eP-Dp2WYo0

[mattgu40]

Originally Posted by M302_imola

Yeah in most cases you can't tell the integrity of these FCABs until you get them out of the housing. Make it very difficult to diagnose. How did you diagnose the loose ball joint? Def report back after the powerflex FCABs are installed.

Ball joints looked like they had little play when turning steering wheel ignition off camera recording ball joint movement. they did not feel too bad once removed but definitely loose

both arms bushing replaced by Poly on cheap moog arms fresh alignement.
look like it did the trick. Ride is a lot better car feels little more nimble and steering feels a little heavier (big plus for me).

hope my new PS4s will least longer with this mod.

Pay extra attention when removing ball joints and arm. very hard to maneuver around the CV boot and can easily get damaged.

[yvonne hart]

rear trailing arm and lower control arm failed at 45,000 miles. The bmw bill for repair is $3000. Is that normal? None of my other past 4 x5's have had this issue. Is this a new problem? My driving or the quality of the parts now used by BMW......

[OnlyGerman]

Originally Posted by yvonne hart

rear trailing arm and lower control arm failed at 45,000 miles. The bmw bill for repair is $3000. Is that normal? None of my other past 4 x5's have had this issue. Is this a new problem? My driving or the quality of the parts now used by BMW......

Take it to an Indy and order the parts yourself. Ridiculous high markup at dealer