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      06-24-2018, 05:55 PM   #23
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Oh dear I wouldn't trust this guy to touch my gas much less my turbos but after seeing the machinery I was in shock!!!! Haha good for this kid man!
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      06-24-2018, 06:10 PM   #24
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Oh dear I wouldn't trust this guy to touch my gas much less my turbos but after seeing the machinery I was in shock!!!! Haha good for this kid man!
Haha. Yes, well, I also wrote to couple other companies about possible turbo upgrade - I'm trying to basically get a larger compressor and turbine wheels in same housing. So we can just do a bolt-on job and be done.

I'll post here if I find out some positive news with estimate and downtime necessary for upgrade.

Maverick, when you were doing spark plugs - do you think taking off turbos and installing them back will be a feasible job? I just don't want to disassemble half the engine for that.
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      06-24-2018, 06:29 PM   #25
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Oh dear I wouldn't trust this guy to touch my gas much less my turbos but after seeing the machinery I was in shock!!!! Haha good for this kid man!
Haha. Yes, well, I also wrote to couple other companies about possible turbo upgrade - I'm trying to basically get a larger compressor and turbine wheels in same housing. So we can just do a bolt-on job and be done.

I'll post here if I find out some positive news with estimate and downtime necessary for upgrade.

Maverick, when you were doing spark plugs - do you think taking off turbos and installing them back will be a feasible job? I just don't want to disassemble half the engine for that.
I could only see the tops of them. Feasible sure but a decent amount of stuff is in the way. Just pop off the top cover and take a look. Tell me what you think.
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      06-25-2018, 05:51 AM   #26
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Just curious, but can anyone figure out why the OTS Bm3 tune is putting down an extra 47awhp compared to the Bpc tune? How can tunes be so different ?
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      06-25-2018, 07:13 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by frenchie1013 View Post
Just curious, but can anyone figure out why the OTS Bm3 tune is putting down an extra 47awhp compared to the Bpc tune? How can tunes be so different ?
Good question.

I took a closer look and it appears that high hp number on BM3 red graph only spikes at the very end - that can be as simple as dyno roller inertia, so it could be a glitch. Notice it falls off short in rpm compared to blue graph. Look at the curve from the beginning to the end - for majority of time it's under 500whp. Right at about 497whp or so. So it's pretty much in line with Bpc tune 485whp.
Once again, variations in weather conditions during run such as humidity, temperature and simply the fact that it's different dyno - can easily be up to 5%. If you do the math 5% from 500whp is about 25whp! Also, fuel in tank, used during dyno run can make a difference. We don't know what fuel that person had (the one who has BM3), maybe he had couple gallons of race gas added or some octane booster. So take it with a grain of salt.
Same with Bpc that has bigger torque - unless it's bigger by more than 5% - I wouldn't say that I'm 100% sure it's the tune that does it.

P.S. Think about it this way: would the tuner hold extra 47whp power not utilized on purpose to make car slower lol and only unleash it at the very end for a very short rpm range: like from 6200-6400rpm and then fall off again? Imagine a tuner writing a tune that has a map with fuel tables, valvetronic lift tables, fuel tables, boost tables, etc. and then suddengly for the very end he switches everything and gets another 47whp out of nowhere?

Bottom line is look at the curve in general - from what rpm to what rpm tune holds hp and tq flat. Things like that matter. A strange spikes at the very end - don't really matter, imho.

Last edited by DuSh; 06-25-2018 at 07:20 AM..
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      06-25-2018, 07:36 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by DuSh View Post
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Originally Posted by frenchie1013 View Post
Just curious, but can anyone figure out why the OTS Bm3 tune is putting down an extra 47awhp compared to the Bpc tune? How can tunes be so different ?
Good question.

I took a closer look and it appears that high hp number on BM3 red graph only spikes at the very end - that can be as simple as dyno roller inertia, so it could be a glitch. Notice it falls off short in rpm compared to blue graph. Look at the curve from the beginning to the end - for majority of time it's under 500whp. Right at about 497whp or so. So it's pretty much in line with Bpc tune 485whp.
Once again, variations in weather conditions during run such as humidity, temperature and simply the fact that it's different dyno - can easily be up to 5%. If you do the math 5% from 500whp is about 25whp! Also, fuel in tank, used during dyno run can make a difference. We don't know what fuel that person had (the one who has BM3), maybe he had couple gallons of race gas added or some octane booster. So take it with a grain of salt.
Same with Bpc that has bigger torque - unless it's bigger by more than 5% - I wouldn't say that I'm 100% sure it's the tune that does it.

P.S. Think about it this way: would the tuner hold extra 47whp power not utilized on purpose to make car slower lol and only unleash it at the very end for a very short rpm range: like from 6200-6400rpm and then fall off again? Imagine a tuner writing a tune that has a map with fuel tables, valvetronic lift tables, fuel tables, boost tables, etc. and then suddengly for the very end he switches everything and gets another 47whp out of nowhere?

Bottom line is look at the curve in general - from what rpm to what rpm tune holds hp and tq flat. Things like that matter. A strange spikes at the very end - don't really matter, imho.
Good point. I hadn't even thought of looking at the graph at all....thanks!
Makes sense.
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      06-25-2018, 11:15 AM   #29
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As some of you may know - I inquired about PureTurbos Stage 1 option, about price, any specs they can tell me before I pull the trigger, downtime - so I know how long it takes for them to get it done - so I can plan how long my car will be without turbos (they require you to sent them your turbos as a core) and so on.

So got an email back from PureTurbos saying they can't release information about their turbo setup or size of compressor/turbine wheels lol
They also don't know the price of installation and don't do install themselves. Didn't gave me any downtime info I asked either.

And here I was trying to help them make money on me and on top of that spread the word and possibly attract some other potential buyers. I could have been possibly a first X5 50i customer that they could have used as an example and improve their knowledge, data, put my dyno or other numbers to advertise etc. Nope.

So as I understand here is how it works with them: we have to take a leap of faith lol when shedding $3k (plus giving away! our turbos as a core) or you can keep your turbos and pay $5k on something we don't know any specs or anything! Then when you finally get it - you install it on your own (so add to the price installation costs - I'm guessing about $1k or so to take off turbos and then put them back on). Then you pay for a tune. Then you dyno. And finally you'll find out if it was worth it or not lol. And if you are not satisfied - well, at least you helped them to make money on you.

I was thinking the heck with numbers maybe if they'll tell me size of their compressor and turbine wheels - I can compare them to stock and get an idea if it's really an upgrade or not so much. But apparently they can't disclose that too lol. I'm speechless. Slow clap...

Last edited by DuSh; 06-25-2018 at 11:44 AM..
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      06-25-2018, 11:51 AM   #30
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So the guy in the video I posted earlier - didn't respond yet to my further email. I asked him if changing only compressor wheel to 50mm (which he does for $750) will work out with better air flow and hence more power.

Send message to another guy - owner of Turbos'R'Us on facebook. He didn't responded yet. I'll give it a couple weeks, but so far it looks like no one wants to make extra bit of effort to make money. Everyone is just doing what they are used to do. Same routine, same boring stuff. Probably machining yet another turbo for some domestic crap car.
Not giving up yet, but universe don't want to see a upgraded turbo X5 50i - that's the only logical explanation I have right now.
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      06-25-2018, 12:52 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DuSh View Post
So the guy in the video I posted earlier - didn't respond yet to my further email. I asked him if changing only compressor wheel to 50mm (which he does for $750) will work out with better air flow and hence more power.

Send message to another guy - owner of Turbos'R'Us on facebook. He didn't responded yet. I'll give it a couple weeks, but so far it looks like no one wants to make extra bit of effort to make money. Everyone is just doing what they are used to do. Same routine, same boring stuff. Probably machining yet another turbo for some domestic crap car.
Not giving up yet, but universe don't want to see a upgraded turbo X5 50i - that's the only logical explanation I have right now.
Just buy the Pure Stage 1's? Good for 600whhp?
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      06-25-2018, 01:31 PM   #32
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Just buy the Pure Stage 1's? Good for 600whhp?
Yes, as a last resort, that's the way I'll go. I'm still waiting for couple other guys.
The thing is that PureTurbos do have more specs and everything for n54/n55. So it's not like they are secret company. I'm more afraid that they don't really know for sure themselves as they have never done it on X5 50i. I know they did it on previous gen. 550i with N63 engine, but that was with meth kit and jb4 setup. Jb4 setup alone was demonstrated by Terry to get 600whp alone. So this makes me think - what's the real turbo upgrade they are selling for $3k (in reality for $5k as we have to give them our oem turbos)? Kinda makes me think I am paying $5k for extra ..... not even sure how much extra whp I'm getting. I mean if it's same 50mm compressor wheel upgrade - then I can get it done for $750. I have no idea and they are not telling even wheels size
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      06-25-2018, 01:42 PM   #33
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I'm going to find that PureStage dude that was posting a lot on F10 and F30 forums and ask him directly if he can at least give me a hint what to expect. Otherwise this is ridiculous - it's same thing as flash tuners would hide their specs and you'll only find out what you got after you pay, flash and do a dyno lol. What's there to keep as a secret lol - we have Garrett turbos MGT22S (MGT2256S) with 47mm compressor and 42mm turbine. This is like cheap mainstream mid-level turbos. After machining - upgraded wheels can be 50mm on compressor side and possibly 48mm on turbine side. Housing stays the same. Roughly every 3mm increase in wheel size equates to about 15-20% more airflow. That's all there is. The only unknown for me is if they use billet or some ready upgrade kits, but I don't care. I only want to know what to expect on dyno or given that they don't know it themselves lol - then at least what size wheels they have - so I can figure out delta myself. I mean heavens to Betsy they are like 5yo kids trying to protect their super secret knowledge from competition shills they think I am lol.

P.S. Send a message to a Mike from vendors section. He sells PureTurbos stuff and hopefully he can enlighten us as to what to expect with Stage 1 upgraded turbos on our X5 50i N63TU.

Last edited by DuSh; 06-25-2018 at 01:55 PM..
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      06-25-2018, 02:38 PM   #34
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Ya that's what I was thinking. Just ask someone who sells to measure the two inlets and give us the dimensions. Lol. I think you're right. They don't know so rather than say that and lose credibility they just say it's a secret to make them sound cool. They're not innovative. Didn't develop some patent. Just bigger turbos. Lol what a joke.
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      06-25-2018, 04:35 PM   #35
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Ya that's what I was thinking. Just ask someone who sells to measure the two inlets and give us the dimensions. Lol. I think you're right. They don't know so rather than say that and lose credibility they just say it's a secret to make them sound cool. They're not innovative. Didn't develop some patent. Just bigger turbos. Lol what a joke.
Yes, my thoughts exactly!
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      06-25-2018, 04:41 PM   #36
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So finally Mike gave me an answer:
"Hi Dush,
I hear you but unfortunately we have no info either on this kit".

So it's listed on their website, it's available on vendors website too (Mike's one for example), but no one knows anything about it and PureTurbo doesn't disclose any info lol. Reminds me of a mystery boxes on ebay. Pay $5k and then receive a surprise. Anyone wants to give it a try?

So I'm done. Sorry guys for the long posts and rant.
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      06-25-2018, 06:03 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DuSh View Post
So finally Mike gave me an answer:
"Hi Dush,
I hear you but unfortunately we have no info either on this kit".

So it's listed on their website, it's available on vendors website too (Mike's one for example), but no one knows anything about it and PureTurbo doesn't disclose any info lol. Reminds me of a mystery boxes on ebay. Pay $5k and then receive a surprise. Anyone wants to give it a try?

So I'm done. Sorry guys for the long posts and rant.
Haha good god. Sorry man. I know it's frustrating.
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      06-25-2018, 10:43 PM   #38
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AZTWW
How’s the reliability so far with bm3 tune? I’m about to pull the trigger this week, but from their website, I see it’s still a beta version, which got me worried.
I understand that my extended warranty will be ruined after flash tune, but I can’t resist the extra power. So do you think it’s completely safe to use the tune for another 3 years without worrying about repair bills? Will the stock engine with 91 gas can handle that amount of power on long-term based?
Thanks
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      06-26-2018, 08:31 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DuSh View Post
So just a heads up for those flash tuned (that includes me too lol): lately already 3 owners were flagged by BMW dealerships for having a third party software flashed to their DMEs. All 3 have BM3 tune, but that doesn't mean other tunes won't be flagged. AFAIK any flash can be discovered if they really want. There are many ways for BMW dealerships to do it and apparently even flash counter reset doesn't help. So bottom line is you gotta pay to play. You can't have everything - power and warranty. I mean, you can have it until you are flagged lol. I personally am done with warranty and I went to the dark side for power, but I did it knowing the consequences. Just my opinion.

P.S. Also posting in Facebook your tunes and dyno numbers is not going to end well lol. Nowadays it's very easy to deny warranty based on such posts and it takes 5 min for BMW to search, find and print such posts with dates and names conveniently provided by Facebook lol. Again, I'm not a lawyer, but just be careful out there.
So if we have a just purchased new 2018 50i, Dinan would be a very good recommendation, even with the higher cost and little less power output. DOnt need to ruin a warranty in the first 1k miles

Any easy way to know if we have mechanical or electrical wastegate? Dinan stage 1 only works for mechanical ones.
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      06-26-2018, 09:50 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by perry8912 View Post
AZTWW
How’s the reliability so far with bm3 tune? I’m about to pull the trigger this week, but from their website, I see it’s still a beta version, which got me worried.
I understand that my extended warranty will be ruined after flash tune, but I can’t resist the extra power. So do you think it’s completely safe to use the tune for another 3 years without worrying about repair bills? Will the stock engine with 91 gas can handle that amount of power on long-term based?
Thanks
These tuners have tuned on a variety of various BMW engines for many years. OTS tunes are developed within a fairly tight safety margin for what these engines have historically been able to handle. A 100hp bump for a BMW turbo engine is not uncommon and is expected. These things are well over engineered. I had tunes on my n54 engine for 4 years and had no issues outside of fuel system things that notoriously failed anyway.

You purchase BMWs own tune (if they made one for the 50i) and it basically would give you a 50hp more...these tuners put another 50 in there since BMW isnt going to allow you to get X5M levels at 30k cheaper. They have no incentive to do that but they know their engines are more than capable.

All conjecture of course but I think you are completely safe with a OTS tune. If you start heading north on the hunt for more HP, then your risk will continue to rise.

Hope that helps. So far, I have had no issues and I just went off warranty in June (knock on wood).

Oh and the tune is in its 4th revision so it's not beta.
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      06-26-2018, 10:06 AM   #41
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So if we have a just purchased new 2018 50i, Dinan would be a very good recommendation, even with the higher cost and little less power output. DOnt need to ruin a warranty in the first 1k miles

Any easy way to know if we have mechanical or electrical wastegate? Dinan stage 1 only works for mechanical ones.
AFAIK (and correct me if I'm wrong) OEM BMW warranty will still be void with Dinan or any other tuner. The only thing that Dinan does is agrees to pay for repairs if BMW will deny warranty due to a aftermarket parts or tune (Dinan or any other). So if your dealer will void warranty and deny repairs - you have to go to Dinan and let them repair your X5.
So I would say warranty wise it's better than a tune you would get from tuners who will not pay for any repairs, but still you are getting into a rabbit hole with unknown outcome. The myth about Dinan having agreement with BMW stems from California dealerships that had Dinan representatives on spot. However, Dinan has no agreement with BMW and warranty will be voided just like with any other aftermarket tuner. So I just wanted to make it clear.

As for a wastegate we have mechanical (regulated via vacuum)
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      06-26-2018, 10:12 AM   #42
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AZTWW
How’s the reliability so far with bm3 tune? I’m about to pull the trigger this week, but from their website, I see it’s still a beta version, which got me worried.
I understand that my extended warranty will be ruined after flash tune, but I can’t resist the extra power. So do you think it’s completely safe to use the tune for another 3 years without worrying about repair bills? Will the stock engine with 91 gas can handle that amount of power on long-term based?
Thanks
I agree with AZTWW, just wanted to add couple points: we (all who are tuned) need to change plugs more often and it's a good idea to buy a set of coils to have handy. Also, timely oil changes go without saying - they become even more important with our tunes due to higher loads (I'm guessing we all going to WOT many times).

One more caution I would add - please do not abuse WOT starts from the dig - it wears transmission (our ZF8 is rated at 660lbft - so with a tune we are already at 600lbft level) and transfer case and I even saw a photo of a X5 50i tuned that broke driveshaft due to huge torque at the start and he apparently forgot to turn DSC off. Other than that - we should be good. Just my opinion.
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      06-26-2018, 10:14 AM   #43
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I also found out that we have 11.5psi stock lol. We have Garrett MGT22S (MGT2256S) turbos. Same turbos on f10 550i, 650i, 750i, X6 50i etc.
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      06-26-2018, 02:14 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DuSh View Post
I agree with AZTWW, just wanted to add couple points: we (all who are tuned) need to change plugs more often and it's a good idea to buy a set of coils to have handy. Also, timely oil changes go without saying - they become even more important with our tunes due to higher loads (I'm guessing we all going to WOT many times).

One more caution I would add - please do not abuse WOT starts from the dig - it wears transmission (our ZF8 is rated at 660lbft - so with a tune we are already at 600lbft level) and transfer case and I even saw a photo of a X5 50i tuned that broke driveshaft due to huge torque at the start and he apparently forgot to turn DSC off. Other than that - we should be good. Just my opinion.
So the flash tune will wear plugs and coils faster? What about the injectors? If I only WOT occasionally, do you think it’s still safe to follow bmw’s recommend maintenance schedule?

Those pictures look awful, I thought our 50i has the same driveshaft and transmission as M.
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