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      10-09-2019, 07:20 AM   #1
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Bowers and Wilkins ---- Wow!

Don't, or do, make the mistake I made yesterday....

Take the time to listen to (audition!) the Bowers & Wilkins system with a high-quality audio source. The sound quality is rather amazing. I was listening to some Mark Knopfler songs and that system allows you to hear the brushes on the cymbals as distinct sound, with variations in pitch as the brushes move. I'm not an audiophile and generally can't tell the difference between a lossless recording and something reasonably compressed but I can certainly hear the difference between the B & W system and the Harman Kardon.

For comparison I listened to the H K system in a new X7 and it really was terrible. To be fair, the B & W system was in a car with 17k miles so the system was "broken in" whereas the X7 was new.

Acoustic glass with Bowers & Wilkins are now on my order for our new X5, unless I buy an F15 with the B&W system but those are extremely rare.
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      10-09-2019, 01:24 PM   #2
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...unless I buy an F15 with the B&W system but those are extremely rare.
I don't think there's ever been a B&W option for F15s...which would make it extremely rare indeed. We have the Bang & Olufsen, or B&O, which I'm thrilled with. I heard the B&W system in an F90 and it was excellent, though I didn't get to directly compare it to my system with the same source. Enjoy!
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      10-14-2019, 08:18 PM   #3
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My mistake, obviously. The F15 has B&O while the new model has B&W. Both sound fantastic!

I reached out to the folks at BavSound hoping to get a better idea of the quality of the upgrades they offer. They provided a great response:

"Thanks for the message and the specific musical example. We love some Mark Knopfler over here! So good news: The Stage One and Ghost subwoofer upgrades are exactly what you are looking for to get much closer (if not surpassing) the B&W system.

The HK amp is actually quite decent (similar to the B&W amp though the B&W is a bit more powerful); the real difference lies in the speakers. The HK speaker are of a MUCH lower quality and that's really where you are losing so much quality and picking up all that muddy, shrill, undefined character.

The Bavsound speakers and subs fix this problem and provide a listening experience much closer to the original recording. Rest assured Mark was quite conscious of those cymbals in his final mix and it's important we hear them too!"
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      10-14-2019, 11:45 PM   #4
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The H&K is no match for B&O. Neither is the Bavsound stage 1 upgrade. I came from a B&O in my previous car and was not impressed.
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      10-15-2019, 08:24 AM   #5
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The H&K is no match for B&O. Neither is the Bavsound stage 1 upgrade. I came from a B&O in my previous car and was not impressed.
So if the HK speakers are so bad, would plugging in the B&O speakers off eBay from a parted out F15 improve it over the HK sound ? Even marginally?

I know they would be underpowered and you could leave the subwoofers in their. But having the HK amp would be the problem. Just trying to avoid having to tear apart the vehicle to run extra wires.

More of just a curiosity.
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      10-15-2019, 08:26 AM   #6
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I am happy with the HK, it sounds better than any HK in Mercedes.
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      10-15-2019, 10:46 AM   #7
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From what is implied by the folks at BavSound the B&O speakers should be a significant upgrade. I listened to the B&O system in a '16 X5 and was very impressed.
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      10-15-2019, 12:30 PM   #8
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From what is implied by the folks at BavSound the B&O speakers should be a significant upgrade. I listened to the B&O system in a '16 X5 and was very impressed.
So you can just swap the speakers and not the amp?
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      10-15-2019, 05:15 PM   #9
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So if the HK speakers are so bad, would plugging in the B&O speakers off eBay from a parted out F15 improve it over the HK sound ? Even marginally?

I know they would be underpowered and you could leave the subwoofers in their. But having the HK amp would be the problem. Just trying to avoid having to tear apart the vehicle to run extra wires.

More of just a curiosity.
I have looked into this many many times. Its a complete teardown to get it retrofitted is the conclusion. Not sure if its worth it. I don't mind the parts cost, its just the labor and finding a reliable shop to do it.
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      10-15-2019, 05:18 PM   #10
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -c- View Post
So if the HK speakers are so bad, would plugging in the B&O speakers off eBay from a parted out F15 improve it over the HK sound ? Even marginally?

I know they would be underpowered and you could leave the subwoofers in their. But having the HK amp would be the problem. Just trying to avoid having to tear apart the vehicle to run extra wires.

More of just a curiosity.
I have looked into this many many times. Its a complete teardown to get it retrofitted is the conclusion. Not sure if its worth it. I don't mind the parts cost, its just the labor and finding a reliable shop to do it.
Right that's why I'm wondering what just swapping the speakers would net you. At a minimum just the tweeters
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      11-27-2019, 09:30 AM   #11
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I did the speakers in our '10 X6 and it was easy once you get over the fear of pulling interior panels. The speakers are held in by screws, wiring is just push-on connectors.
Changing the amp, etc. and having to run new wires would obviously be far more involved. I've pulled the center stack before and that is easy to do as well, just take your time and learn the locations of the tabs and screws holding things in place before you start yanking. I used pieces of masking tape to show the locations of the plastic tabs so I wouldn't miss releasing one.
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      11-27-2019, 10:57 AM   #12
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You guys living in European countries make me jealous. Here in the US you can’t really enjoy the refinement of any audio systems due to poor road conditions. I have to crank up the sound to mid way to even hear it due to road noise (lack of asphalt to be precise bc roads are mostly rough surface or concrete plates). I have the B&O system in my x6 and wife has HK in her x5 and we can’t tell the difference bc we can’t hear the entire audible sound range produced. Ugh!!!!

This is to say, if you want to enjoy it you must be stationary like in a parking lot or in the garage
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      11-27-2019, 12:10 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sj22 View Post
I have looked into this many many times. Its a complete teardown to get it retrofitted is the conclusion. Not sure if its worth it. I don't mind the parts cost, its just the labor and finding a reliable shop to do it.
Give Musicar Northwest a call, they have worked on a lot of BMW’s and put DIY upgrade systems together. Not entirely plug and play but close.

I live just south of Seattle and don’t mind making the drive, it would be a bit longer from Vancouver but they will also help find a local installer to do the work with their kit if you prefer.

I plan on upgrades to my 2016 X6 F16 with 688 Harman/Kardon Surround Sound System after my 4-year warranty runs out late February 2020. I don’t know how many X5/X6 systems Musicar has done so feel free to have them practice on you and prepare for my upgrade 😊. B&O was not an option on the 35i, only the 50i and M I believe. With what I know now, even if I owned a 50i, I would go for a lower priced audio option and purchase an aftermarket upgrade kit.

BavSound is a good option for convenience but I am finding there are much better alternatives available.

Here are some pictures of an X5 install Musicar NW did.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/kennet...57667508673867

I had Musicar add an OEM style corner mounted Subwoofer to my 2009 335i Coupe along with a 3 channel amp that also powers the stock under-seat woofers and it is a significant improvement. This install included a BMW "TOP" HiFi Plug and Play harness and Audio Line Output Converter. I plan on upgrading the cabin L/R and under-seat speakers along with new amps and a DSP next.

For the X6 I plan on building a subwoofer hidden in the storage compartment myself, possibly install a 3-channel amp in a manner similar to Musicar’s full-bass upgrade but I will use Musicar NW to do the cabin upgrade. I will be building the enclosure over Christmas break.

Most of Musicar’s certified Sound solutions for BMW are for other models but the sound system’s and speakers used are essentially the same. If you check the 3, 4 and 5 series sections on this forum you will find lots of examples.

https://musicarnw.com/musicar-certified-sound-for-bmw/

There is a recent X6M owner living in Canada a bit east of you wrapping up an unbelievable, full system upgrade I am following right now.
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      11-27-2019, 10:15 PM   #14
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B&W is on better end of stock music that manufacturers put in our cars. At least they use descent materials to make speakers.
HK is not the worst, but I listened to an average aftermarket system custom fitted to x5 and HK sounded noticeably muddy in comparison. The tuning shop showed me HK speakers and whoever held them in hands can attest that they are almost like made from paper lol. I've been told speakers we have in our cars from HK are made very cheaply to cut costs and fit into budget that BMW allows for suppliers (in this case HK). I've been told HK speakers for x5 are limited by $150-200 production cost.
So I imagine replacing speakers alone, even keeping stock amp - should give noticeable sound quality improvement.
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      11-28-2019, 12:31 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeR View Post
Give Musicar Northwest a call, they have worked on a lot of BMW’s and put DIY upgrade systems together. Not entirely plug and play but close.

I live just south of Seattle and don’t mind making the drive, it would be a bit longer from Vancouver but they will also help find a local installer to do the work with their kit if you prefer.

I plan on upgrades to my 2016 X6 F16 with 688 Harman/Kardon Surround Sound System after my 4-year warranty runs out late February 2020. I don’t know how many X5/X6 systems Musicar has done so feel free to have them practice on you and prepare for my upgrade 😊. B&O was not an option on the 35i, only the 50i and M I believe. With what I know now, even if I owned a 50i, I would go for a lower priced audio option and purchase an aftermarket upgrade kit.

BavSound is a good option for convenience but I am finding there are much better alternatives available.

Here are some pictures of an X5 install Musicar NW did.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/kennet...57667508673867

I had Musicar add an OEM style corner mounted Subwoofer to my 2009 335i Coupe along with a 3 channel amp that also powers the stock under-seat woofers and it is a significant improvement. This install included a BMW "TOP" HiFi Plug and Play harness and Audio Line Output Converter. I plan on upgrading the cabin L/R and under-seat speakers along with new amps and a DSP next.

For the X6 I plan on building a subwoofer hidden in the storage compartment myself, possibly install a 3-channel amp in a manner similar to Musicar’s full-bass upgrade but I will use Musicar NW to do the cabin upgrade. I will be building the enclosure over Christmas break.

Most of Musicar’s certified Sound solutions for BMW are for other models but the sound system’s and speakers used are essentially the same. If you check the 3, 4 and 5 series sections on this forum you will find lots of examples.

https://musicarnw.com/musicar-certified-sound-for-bmw/

There is a recent X6M owner living in Canada a bit east of you wrapping up an unbelievable, full system upgrade I am following right now.
Thanks, I will call them and look into it.
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