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      02-13-2020, 05:14 PM   #1
Zamorskii
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Fraud while selling your vehicle?

Hi, I have a vehicle for sale listed on one of the internet sites and wanted to get your opinion on if I am being scammed or not.

I have this "interested" buyer who is located half country away from me and he reached out first via a text message asking for additional photos/information about the vehicle be sent to his email. I first responded with a text asking what specifically he wanted to see, but had no immediate response. I then sent him an email to which he responded asking which vehicle this was in reference to as he lost track of his requests. I sent him the link to my add and soon enough got a response that he is pleased with the vehicle, wants to buy it for his wife and wants to know if wire transfer method of payment is good with me, after which his mover will come to pick the vehicle up. I responded Yes, but honestly was expecting the conversation go further into pre-purchase inspection topics and vehicle history (it's is not clean, but clearly stated in my add), but the "buyer" wants my bank information now and acts like he's itching to send me the funds yesterday.

I asked for copy of his Driver's License so I can draft up a Bill of Sale, and he did sent me a copy, which appears legitimate. My fraud radar is pretty high (I work at a bank and hold a Certified Fraud Examiner certification) and I was initially very skeptical, but wanted to see "where this whole thing might go". I know that you cannot simply recall a wire transfer and even if he's using illicit funds, those should not theoretically be recoupable from me. I think I cover all my bases, and that leads me to wondering what may I be missing. Did the world change so much that people buy $50k cars sight unseen not even talking to the seller life, or am I really being taken for a ride? Is he just trying to get my banking information and potentially steal something? Will I have the Feds knock on my door 3 months down the road? Where is the catch?
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      02-13-2020, 05:31 PM   #2
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Scam.

Anyone who wants to buy anything from me sight unseen is not worth my time. Even though you and I can't figure out the exact scheme, I have no doubt that there is one and somehow you will end up on the loosing end. My suggestion is to not waste any more time on this individual.
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      02-13-2020, 05:35 PM   #3
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Definitely sounds scammish to me. I'd block this guy.
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      02-13-2020, 05:37 PM   #4
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Smells like a scam. I had almost the same exchange with someone on ebay who offered to arrange pickup/shipping for a set of wheels I was selling. He also assured me that pickup would occur only after funds have cleared. Why not buy these wheels locally instead of forking $$$$ to have them shipped half way across the country? It's not like I was selling them for pennies. So this looks like common practice for fraud, not a common practice to sell/buy a $50k+ car.
The other red flag in your case is that he wants the car sight unseen and knowing it doesn't have a clean record.
I would stay away.
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      02-13-2020, 05:46 PM   #5
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Do you have an attorney? Many law firms have escrow accounts set up. I wonder if your attorney would be willing to broker the transaction (for a fee of course) and have the funds wired to the law firm's escrow account.
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      02-13-2020, 06:31 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zamorskii View Post
Hi, I have a vehicle for sale listed on one of the internet sites and wanted to get your opinion on if I am being scammed or not.

I have this "interested" buyer who is located half country away from me and he reached out first via a text message asking for additional photos/information about the vehicle be sent to his email. I first responded with a text asking what specifically he wanted to see, but had no immediate response. I then sent him an email to which he responded asking which vehicle this was in reference to as he lost track of his requests. I sent him the link to my add and soon enough got a response that he is pleased with the vehicle, wants to buy it for his wife and wants to know if wire transfer method of payment is good with me, after which his mover will come to pick the vehicle up. I responded Yes, but honestly was expecting the conversation go further into pre-purchase inspection topics and vehicle history (it's is not clean, but clearly stated in my add), but the "buyer" wants my bank information now and acts like he's itching to send me the funds yesterday.

I asked for copy of his Driver's License so I can draft up a Bill of Sale, and he did sent me a copy, which appears legitimate. My fraud radar is pretty high (I work at a bank and hold a Certified Fraud Examiner certification) and I was initially very skeptical, but wanted to see "where this whole thing might go". I know that you cannot simply recall a wire transfer and even if he's using illicit funds, those should not theoretically be recoupable from me. I think I cover all my bases, and that leads me to wondering what may I be missing. Did the world change so much that people buy $50k cars sight unseen not even talking to the seller life, or am I really being taken for a ride? Is he just trying to get my banking information and potentially steal something? Will I have the Feds knock on my door 3 months down the road? Where is the catch?

The most amazing thing about this is bolded in your quote. How can you hold a Certified Fraud Examiner cert (whatever that is) and even think this guy is legit?

Have you talked to him on the phone?

Ask him to overnight a bank draft.... not that the bank draft will be good, just to see if he'll spend the money on overnight fees. In the past, this is where I lose scammers.

Have him send you a picture of him holding his drivers license.

Where does the IP of his email say he's from?

There are tons of thing you can do to verify if he's legit.


I would be sooooo surprised if this guy was legit.


Anyway, have fun messing with this guy. It's can be fun when you get one on the hook.
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      02-13-2020, 06:56 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewmr View Post
The most amazing thing about this is bolded in your quote. How can you hold a Certified Fraud Examiner cert (whatever that is) and even think this guy is legit?

Have you talked to him on the phone?

Ask him to overnight a bank draft.... not that the bank draft will be good, just to see if he'll spend the money on overnight fees. In the past, this is where I lose scammers.

Have him send you a picture of him holding his drivers license.

Where does the IP of his email say he's from?

There are tons of thing you can do to verify if he's legit.


I would be sooooo surprised if this guy was legit.


Anyway, have fun messing with this guy. It's can be fun when you get one on the hook.
The thing is that I DO NOT think this guy is legit, even though he did send me a picture of him holding his Driver's License (according to the photo metadata, it was taken November 2019, so that for sure is a huge red flag for me). The purpose of this post is primarily to see if folks encountered this type of a scam so I and everybody else can learn from it. What if he did ask all the right questions, ran a pre-purchase inspection and then went through with the sale which was a set-up all along?

I do not work in a fraud department, so don't have tools for running email IP addresses, etc.

My next step is to mail a letter to this person and alert them of potential identity theft and/or compromised account access that somebody is trying to exploit.
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      02-13-2020, 07:09 PM   #8
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100% guaranteed scam, he will offer you a PayPal money transfer or something similar. Best way to check things out is to call and talk to the person, never trust text messages, check his phone number is he is legit or if its a google voice/voip spoofed number. Ask if he is going to pick it up or how is he going to arrange shipping etc. Scammers are usually not well prepared for these sort of things so they would avoid phone conversations at all costs.
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      02-13-2020, 07:21 PM   #9
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Well I've bought cars sight unseen....

Z4, 135is, Mini Cooper S, X5, A6 and the i3, list goes on but I travel the country getting the best deals out their.

So I may be in the few but we do exists.

But I agree you have to test the guy out. Talk over the phone. I never have just paid and shipped however I always fly out and pick up the car and bring the funds with me.

That way I can always walk if the car is not what's promised.

Usually he can send the funds and you can get verification.

I've heard of bank certified checks being faked only to bounce days later.

You can never be to carful.

Also in the end if your not comfortable just be honest with him. Ask for a different way that your comfortable with or no sale. It's not worth it and your car will eventually sell and you'll be happy. Never bite at the first offer if it smells fishy.

And never give your bank info out ever! Never ever !
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      02-13-2020, 07:25 PM   #10
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Maybe he wants your bank info to take some money out?
Open a new account with zero balance and give him the info if you think he may send it.
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      02-13-2020, 10:03 PM   #11
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Pass.
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      02-14-2020, 09:46 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turboawd View Post
Maybe he wants your bank info to take some money out?
Open a new account with zero balance and give him the info if you think he may send it.
This is the only reason for doing this that I can think of, but then why go through all this trouble when you can buy this information on dark web all day long?
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      02-14-2020, 10:03 AM   #13
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If you do a new bank account, make sure its at a different bank than where you really bank. All banks link all account holder accounts together under the same SS#.

So if they get info on one, they can get the info on the others at that same institution.

Former banker here.
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      02-14-2020, 10:42 AM   #14
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I have bought cars sight unseen, but only from dealerships. Not from private parties. When I have sold my cars, I have always met the buyer in person and they have always paid me in cash. Money is counted at the bank, which is where the titles are signed over also.
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      02-14-2020, 11:12 AM   #15
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Very suspicious buyer based on earlier comments. I'd pass as well.
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      02-14-2020, 12:14 PM   #16
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I suspect there're multiple reasons. They contact hundreds of sellers; few bite, after which the game begins and depending on how far it goes, the results vary from few bucks for fake carfax to PII to car possession or even extortion.
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      02-14-2020, 12:39 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rotzy View Post
Scam.

Anyone who wants to buy anything from me sight unseen is not worth my time. Even though you and I can't figure out the exact scheme, I have no doubt that there is one and somehow you will end up on the loosing end. My suggestion is to not waste any more time on this individual.
I bought my car sight unseen but guy saw my FB and IG filled with pics haha.

Yeah seems scamming enough though from your side
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      02-19-2020, 04:41 PM   #18
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A bit of an update here. I felt it was a scam, but what threw me off was the DL that he was able to produce when I asked for it. Long story short, I dropped a letter in the mail to the guy pictured on the DL and he called me back today confirming that he'd been battling this perp for awhile now. He mentioned that he was selling a vehicle on Ebay and this person asked for his DL photo, which is how they got a hold of it and started using it.

Lesson here … be careful about how you share your personal information when a "potential" buyer requests it.
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      02-19-2020, 05:02 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zamorskii View Post
A bit of an update here. I felt it was a scam, but what threw me off was the DL that he was able to produce when I asked for it. Long story short, I dropped a letter in the mail to the guy pictured on the DL and he called me back today confirming that he'd been battling this perp for awhile now. He mentioned that he was selling a vehicle on Ebay and this person asked for his DL photo, which is how they got a hold of it and started using it.

Lesson here … be careful about how you share your personal information when a "potential" buyer requests it.
Thanks for the update. Any idea if you will be able to get your money back?
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      02-19-2020, 05:56 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russmov View Post
Thanks for the update. Any idea if you will be able to get your money back?
You're thinking of the other thread.
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      02-19-2020, 06:00 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turboawd View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russmov View Post
Thanks for the update. Any idea if you will be able to get your money back?
You're thinking of the other thread.
You are correct lol
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      02-19-2020, 08:22 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewmr View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zamorskii View Post
Hi, I have a vehicle for sale listed on one of the internet sites and wanted to get your opinion on if I am being scammed or not.

I have this "interested" buyer who is located half country away from me and he reached out first via a text message asking for additional photos/information about the vehicle be sent to his email. I first responded with a text asking what specifically he wanted to see, but had no immediate response. I then sent him an email to which he responded asking which vehicle this was in reference to as he lost track of his requests. I sent him the link to my add and soon enough got a response that he is pleased with the vehicle, wants to buy it for his wife and wants to know if wire transfer method of payment is good with me, after which his mover will come to pick the vehicle up. I responded Yes, but honestly was expecting the conversation go further into pre-purchase inspection topics and vehicle history (it's is not clean, but clearly stated in my add), but the "buyer" wants my bank information now and acts like he's itching to send me the funds yesterday.

I asked for copy of his Driver's License so I can draft up a Bill of Sale, and he did sent me a copy, which appears legitimate. My fraud radar is pretty high (I work at a bank and hold a Certified Fraud Examiner certification) and I was initially very skeptical, but wanted to see "where this whole thing might go". I know that you cannot simply recall a wire transfer and even if he's using illicit funds, those should not theoretically be recoupable from me. I think I cover all my bases, and that leads me to wondering what may I be missing. Did the world change so much that people buy $50k cars sight unseen not even talking to the seller life, or am I really being taken for a ride? Is he just trying to get my banking information and potentially steal something? Will I have the Feds knock on my door 3 months down the road? Where is the catch?

The most amazing thing about this is bolded in your quote. How can you hold a Certified Fraud Examiner cert (whatever that is) and even think this guy is legit?

Have you talked to him on the phone?

Ask him to overnight a bank draft.... not that the bank draft will be good, just to see if he'll spend the money on overnight fees. In the past, this is where I lose scammers.

Have him send you a picture of him holding his drivers license.

Where does the IP of his email say he's from?

There are tons of thing you can do to verify if he's legit.


I would be sooooo surprised if this guy was legit.


Anyway, have fun messing with this guy. It's can be fun when you get one on the hook.
No offense but if this is true your certificate is worthless.
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