Tuned my F15 50i - BM3

[pits200]

For anyone reading, this is a terrible tune and lacks 5he needed consistency to be considered a good product.

[adonnan]

To everyone claiming this is a junk tune, replace your plugs and ALL ignition coils, then reach out to BM3 support for a look at your log. They did three custom revisions for me and I ran that for quite some time at stage 2. Overall I found that throttle response to be too much and flashed Stage 2 93 octane (BETA) 1.1. Not a huge fan of the mild burble, but it's more drivable for daily driving. Currently at 77k on our 2017 x5.

[pits200]

Originally Posted by adonnan

To everyone claiming this is a junk tune, replace your plugs and ALL ignition coils, then reach out to BM3 support for a look at your log. They did three custom revisions for me and I ran that for quite some time at stage 2. Overall I found that throttle response to be too much and flashed Stage 2 93 octane (BETA) 1.1. Not a huge fan of the mild burble, but it's more drivable for daily driving. Currently at 77k on our 2017 x5.

Every ots tune should function solidly, not necessarily perfectly. For someone who only wants a stage 1 or stage 2 tune, they 100% should not need a custom tune.

I've been car tuning for 15 years and will tell you, the ots tune is garbage. Despite plug changes and coils, many many people still got stumbling and misfires.

If they have build a tune with tolerances that small, they are not doing something right.

[campaign308]

Originally Posted by 9mmkungfu

Shameless plug: I have an unused license for sale for $800 here in the forum if anyone is looking

Available?

[Goodfella10]

I am the OP.
I would highly advise staying away from this tune. I will update my original post when I get some time (currently traveling).
Bottom line the tune is NO GOOD, lots of knocks. This will cause more problems for you and your car.

[Rotzy]

Originally Posted by Goodfella10

I am the OP.
I would highly advise staying away from this tone. I will update my original post when I get some time (currently traveling).
Bottom line the tune is NO GOOD, lots of knocks. This will cause more problems for you and your car.

Many of us have had very good results with this tune.

You haven't posted in this thread since July when you were going to do some logging. What happened to change your mind?

[pits200]

Originally Posted by Rotzy

Many of us have had very good results with this tune.

You haven't posted in this thread since July when you were going to do some logging. What happened to change your mind?

On the f15/f16 n63 platform, I'm having a hard time seeing many people post overwhelmingly positive reviews.

Do you fall into that category?

[skoold2003]

Originally Posted by pits200

On the f15/f16 n63 platform, I'm having a hard time seeing many people post overwhelmingly positive reviews.

Do you fall into that category?

I had it on mine when the motor developed the bearing knock and had to be replaced. I know correlation isn't causation but it's a data point.

[pits200]

Originally Posted by skoold2003

I had it on mine when the motor developed the bearing knock and had to be replaced. I know correlation isn't causation but it's a data point.

I can give you an additional correlation....

My engine went out approx 2 months after....

This tune is one of the biggest pieces of garbage, I'm surprised people are still running it.

[skoold2003]

Originally Posted by pits200

I can give you an additional correlation....

My engine went out approx 2 months after....

This tune is one of the biggest pieces of garbage, I'm surprised people are still running it.

Recently or previously??

[pits200]

Originally Posted by skoold2003

Recently or previously??

3 weeks ago.

[Rotzy]

Originally Posted by pits200

3 weeks ago.

What happened?

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Anyone running a tune, even a stage 1 needs to accept the reality you must pay to play. What I mean by this is you must run either higher octane gas or octane booster, knock is real and the killer of all engines. A high torque engine in a 5300lb tank exasperates this.

If your cant mix in higher octane race gas to get at least a 95 rating, highly recommend using boostane professional. It only takes 5oz to bring a full tank of 91 to 95. Its approx 1 dollar and ounce so it only adds 5 dollars per fill up. Yes it will turn your plugs red but after using it for tens of thousands of miles per fill up, I have yet to see any real drawbacks. Original n63, 160k miles.

I still think mixing 100octane gas in is the best option but it's not available everywhere and does add about 50 dollars per fill-up vs mixing in octane booster so boostane or similar high quality octane boosters are an excellent second option.

BTW, for those who have ISTA installed/access to it, you can analyze your last full tank, last 5 fill-ups, and lifetime fuel quality. It does this by measuring knock events, it is an excellent indication of If you are using the right gas/octane rating for your tune.

For example, if your running a stage 2 and filling up with 93 but it still gives you a low fuel score, best add higher octane gas or octane booster or be ready rebuild your engine soon.

[CarHopper]

TL : DR - Go stage 2 with confidence so long as you stay on top of plugs / packs as a regular maintenance item and don't wait for that first misfire to indicate it's time to replace plugs / packs. Stock car, fine. But on an aggressive tuned car a knock / misfire is enough to bend a rod.

I know I'll be flamed for my 2 cents here, just adding an observation coming from a different platform. For reference, my experience comes from the w212 E63S with the 5.5L TT M157 motor and that whole realm. (Doesn't matter, but venturing into these parts for a potential new DD to replace my E70 X5 so that's how I ended up on a BMW forum).

Anyway -- On the E63 I've seen something quite similar to this thread / theme. "Stage 1" tunes being great, but factually slower, so people go to "stage 2" because they don't like how many stage 2 people are out there and faster than them. However, that bump, and you absolutely torch plugs/packs frequently. I ran stage 2 and stayed on top of replacing my plugs and packs so didn't run into an issue.

However -- For a small fraction of people who didn't (I want to emphasize this, it is a very, very, very small portion of people) the results were devastating. A simple plug/pack failure and subsequent knock/misfire is enough to bend a rod. I took a car (on a tune/dp only) from 465awhp/505awtq to 619awhp/763awtq. So, I can see how one misstep adding that much can lead to big damage.

And it has. The E63 world has seen some scratching their heads about how they bent a rod and scored a cylinder and the answer is simple, it's the tune. And it's not necessarily a "bad" tune, it's just a bad preventative maintenance plan on your part. Someone just had this happen, went to a dealer, and got a quote for $96k. Yes, $96k. You can get 2 clean E63S' for that.

My advice --- In order to properly go to that next level with a tune and really try to squeeze out the hp/tq you need to put plugs and packs on the preventative maintenance list. Often times we end up waiting for that CEL to put up and a misfire to let us know it's time for packs and plugs. But these days, and the amount of power gains coming through tunes, a misfire can bend a rod and cost you a motor. So again, I firmly believe that if you're going down this road you need to just do packs and plugs like its an oil change and set a 10k-15k mile interval on replacing them.

"Pay to play" is a reality, but that shouldn't mean expect blowing a tranny or a motor. It should really mean increase preventative maintenance and not treat your car like it just rolled out of the factory but really be anal about replacing these parts and I think your car will treat you well.

Or don't - wait until a pack or plug fails, and find yourself with a full engine replacement repair bill.

*disclaimer* -- I know NOTHING about bm3 tunes specifically and I am by no means commenting on that product. Everything I said above is just a general observation about where things stand today and considerations for maintaining a healthy vehicle if you're going to chase that untapped power.

edit -- quick follow up here -- if you're going to go to stage 2 I would also do new plugs / packs at the same time regardless. I think a lot of people who say things like "went stage 2, went for a spin, misfire immediately, THEN did new plugs and packs, and everything is GREAT!" should count their blessings because you're playing with fire. I'd hate for that first misfire to cost you an engine but it happens. AND again, emphasis added, I'm not trying to instill fear into anyone here. Just be smart...

[skoold2003]

Originally Posted by pits200

3 weeks ago.

Ouch, I feel your pain brotha..

[skoold2003]

Originally Posted by Sophisticated Redneck

Anyone running a tune, even a stage 1 needs to accept the reality you must pay to play. What I mean by this is you must run either higher octane gas or octane booster, knock is real and the killer of all engines. A high torque engine in a 5300lb tank exasperates this.

If your cant mix in higher octane race gas to get at least a 95 rating, highly recommend using boostane professional. It only takes 5oz to bring a full tank of 91 to 95. Its approx 1 dollar and ounce so it only adds 5 dollars per fill up. Yes it will turn your plugs red but after using it for tens of thousands of miles per fill up, I have yet to see any real drawbacks. Original n63, 160k miles.

I still think mixing 100octane gas in is the best option but it's not available everywhere and does add about 50 dollars per fill-up vs mixing in octane booster so boostane or similar high quality octane boosters are an excellent second option.

BTW, for those who have ISTA installed/access to it, you can analyze your last full tank, last 5 fill-ups, and lifetime fuel quality. It does this by measuring knock events, it is an excellent indication of If you are using the right gas/octane rating for your tune.

For example, if your running a stage 2 and filling up with 93 but it still gives you a low fuel score, best add higher octane gas or octane booster or be ready rebuild your engine soon.

I don't think it was octane related because I was running their stage 1 91 ACN (I think that was it) tune. Basically that is supposed to be for Nevada residents to make up for our shitty gas. Plus the knock wasn't the same as the pinging you get with bad gas.

[pits200]

Let's be real about modern FI car engines. Many car manufacturers use the same engine for many years and give the next year's model a fresh hp/tq number by simply upping boost or some other small tweak to the software with no actual hardware changes. All BMW engines for the past 10 years are typically over built and should easily be able to handle a good bump with a properly built tune.

BMW wideband sensors are extremely forgiving and typically give a good amount of leeway for people who are stupid with their cars, to an extent. Not arguing about maintenance for plugs and coils but that should not cause a failure event unless you neglect for an extended period.

But with bm3, I have seen the forgiveness taken away. I'd rather have a tune car with too much boost than too much ignition adv. My stupid self hasn't looked at the boost tables/IA to see how the tune reacts with high IATs, with poor octane, vanos, etc... It feels like ptf must be pushing the ragged limits of all failsafes for so many people to be having issues.

Stage 1 and stage 2 from a boost perspective shouldn't pop your engine. If you ran stage 2 without catless dps, the main negative is the effect on the turbos and causing them to run a higher duty cycle because of the restriction, it shouldn't harm your engine significantly unless they also drastically increase IAT limits and IA.

Overall, I have zero faith in this POS product and will vehemently spread the word.

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Originally Posted by skoold2003

I don't think it was octane related because I was running their stage 1 91 ACN (I think that was it) tune. Basically that is supposed to be for Nevada residents to make up for our shitty gas. Plus the knock wasn't the same as the pinging you get with bad gas.

My theory as to why some have zero issues with tunes and others bend a rod is with BMW's amazing OIL INJECTION SYSTEM.

See those lines that run from your valve covers to your turbo inlet manifolds, that is oil mist being directly added to your air intake. Oil has a detrimental effect on lowering octane. All engines have this for emissions reasons (instead of just dumping it straight to your exhaust) but BMW's built in oil/air separators have always been a joke.

How much oil in the crankcase blow-by gasses varies greatly from engine to engine, so you can have one engine, with a stage 1 tune that is just squeaking by, and another that has more blow-by in the crankcase, in combination with the crappy factory oil/air separators, pushes it over the edge and you get some serious pre-detonation. Carbon build-up on the pistons/combustion chambers and ambient temps are also contributing factors

Two choices here: Install catch-cans to improve the oil/air separation, or run higher octane as an added insurance policy (or even better, both!).

Now don't get me wrong, I am not blaming anyone who has lost their engine running a stage 1 or stage 2 tune with 91 or 93 octane respectively is at fault, but rather it is the tuners who are claiming these tunes are safe at this level. However the data is clear that the 91/93 octane levels are just to low for reality. Add an effective octane booster or mix race gas at every fill up for additional level of safety when running a tune.

[skoold2003]

Originally Posted by Sophisticated Redneck

My theory as to why some have zero issues with tunes and others bend a rod is with BMW's amazing OIL INJECTION SYSTEM.

See those lines that run from your valve covers to your turbo inlet manifolds, that is oil mist being directly added to your air intake. Oil has a detrimental effect on lowering octane. All engines have this for emissions reasons (instead of just dumping it straight to your exhaust) but BMW's built in oil/air separators have always been a joke.

How much oil in the crankcase blow-by gasses varies greatly from engine to engine, so you can have one engine, with a stage 1 tune that is just squeaking by, and another that has more blow-by in the crankcase, in combination with the crappy factory oil/air separators, pushes it over the edge and you get some serious pre-detonation. Carbon build-up on the pistons/combustion chambers and ambient temps are also contributing factors

Two choices here: Install catch-cans to improve the oil/air separation, or run higher octane as an added insurance policy (or even better, both!).

Now don't get me wrong, I am not blaming anyone who has lost their engine running a stage 1 or stage 2 tune with 91 or 93 octane respectively is at fault, but rather it is the tuners who are claiming these tunes are safe at this level. However the data is clear that the 91/93 octane levels are just to low for reality. Add an effective octane booster or mix race gas at every fill up for additional level of safety when running a tune.

I think you've convinced me to at least add boostane at every fillup. And I'll look into a catch can too. Thanks

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Originally Posted by pits200

Let's be real about modern FI car engines. Many car manufacturers use the same engine for many years and give the next year's model a fresh hp/tq number by simply upping boost or some other small tweak to the software with no actual hardware changes. All BMW engines for the past 10 years are typically over built and should easily be able to handle a good bump with a properly built tune.

BMW wideband sensors are extremely forgiving and typically give a good amount of leeway for people who are stupid with their cars, to an extent. Not arguing about maintenance for plugs and coils but that should not cause a failure event unless you neglect for an extended period.

But with bm3, I have seen the forgiveness taken away. I'd rather have a tune car with too much boost than too much ignition adv. My stupid self hasn't looked at the boost tables/IA to see how the tune reacts with high IATs, with poor octane, vanos, etc... It feels like ptf must be pushing the ragged limits of all failsafes for so many people to be having issues.

Stage 1 and stage 2 from a boost perspective shouldn't pop your engine. If you ran stage 2 without catless dps, the main negative is the effect on the turbos and causing them to run a higher duty cycle because of the restriction, it shouldn't harm your engine significantly unless they also drastically increase IAT limits and IA.

Overall, I have zero faith in this POS product and will vehemently spread the word.

I agree in that I think its way to aggressive of timing unless the turbos are being run past their choke point and combustion temps are going through the roof because of the excessive back pressure.

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Originally Posted by skoold2003

I think you've convinced me to at least add boostane at every fillup. And I'll look into a catch can too. Thanks

You can get a 32oz bottle (make sure to get the professional version) off amazon for 29.95. 5oz will bring 91 to 95 for a 20gallon fill up.

They also sell individual "shots" so you don't have to measure it out. Not sure if it is concentrated as the professional version though so double check how much you need to add if you get those.

Otherwise pickup some 5oz bottles with tight fitting lids and just pour it in those to have them ready whenever you need.

Pour it in first, then add the gas as this will allow it to mix properly and run the engine about 10 miles before pushing it since our fuel system is a non-return type to make sure the boosted octane gas is now at the injectors.

As for catch-cans, I have been running the three port Tasan racing catch-cans with excellent results on the original N63. For the TU and TU2 engines you only need a 2 port, links below. Don't let the low cost fool you, these are some of the best catch-cans on the market that are not only baffled but also feature 50 micron sintered bronze filters that catch everything, even water vapor. You will be amazed at all of the crap they catch that sneaks by the factory oil/air separators. They are quite compact too, which is perfect for the stuffed 50i engine compartment.


https://www.amazon.com/Tasan-Racing-.../dp/B07HH97RFR

[pits200]

I'm back and forth on catch cans. I like the concept but don't like the potential for additional crankcase pressure.

With that being said, I believe your points are valid but the concept of oil decreasing octane is typically more prevalent on port injection cars. With DI, that shouldn't be much of a concern. And remember, most fuel has a built in octane additive which is e85. The majority of fuels have a 10% e85 blend which obviously slightly decreases gas mileage but from a performance perspective, e85 is great. The effective octane of e85 is like 107 octane. Addtionally, e85 helps with egts especially on direct inject cars. So I can't see how running a 93 tune while using quality 93 gas is the problem with the bm3 tune.