N63TU 50i tunes, mods, numbers (1/4, 0-60 etc) dyno thread

[perry8912]

Originally Posted by AZTWW

These tuners have tuned on a variety of various BMW engines for many years. OTS tunes are developed within a fairly tight safety margin for what these engines have historically been able to handle. A 100hp bump for a BMW turbo engine is not uncommon and is expected. These things are well over engineered. I had tunes on my n54 engine for 4 years and had no issues outside of fuel system things that notoriously failed anyway.

You purchase BMWs own tune (if they made one for the 50i) and it basically would give you a 50hp more...these tuners put another 50 in there since BMW isnt going to allow you to get X5M levels at 30k cheaper. They have no incentive to do that but they know their engines are more than capable.

All conjecture of course but I think you are completely safe with a OTS tune. If you start heading north on the hunt for more HP, then your risk will continue to rise.

Hope that helps. So far, I have had no issues and I just went off warranty in June (knock on wood).

Oh and the tune is in its 4th revision so it's not beta.

Thanks for the positive reviews, it really helps.

I see there are several flash tuning options on the market, bm3, ess, mission tuning, bpc..... The bm3 being the cheapest among them, any reason why? Which one is the most aggressive?
Increasing stock 11.5psi to 18-19psi, seems really pushing it....

[AZTWW]

Originally Posted by perry8912

Thanks for the positive reviews, it really helps.

I see there are several flash tuning options on the market, bm3, ess, mission tuning, bpc..... The bm3 being the cheapest among them, any reason why? Which one is the most aggressive?
Increasing stock 11.5psi to 18-19psi, seems really pushing it....

That same 335i N54 engine went from 9psi stock (300hp) to 20psi during those 4 years. It isn't that uncommon to add that much more.

When I first hit the throttle after the tune, it scared me how much more of a monster it was. I thought the engine was going to fly out. It is a pretty noticeable increase. Granted you will be operating the turbos at higher levels than what they set them to do but most turbos are designed for north of 20psi duty. The manufacturers are the ones restricting you from doing so.

It is hard to say why it is cheaper but it is a more widely available tuning platform that covers many BMW engines right now. Could be economies of scale, strategic pricing model, or some other reason for keeping it positioned this way in the market. There are not many options for the 50i and almost all of those came out within the past year and just recently, over ODB2.

As for as which is more aggressive, maybe BM3, maybe some other. I do know a guy with the 50i stage 1 BM3 setup ran a 12.32 at the track. That is within a hair of a stock x5m.

[Rotzy]

Originally Posted by perry8912

So the flash tune will wear plugs and coils faster? What about the injectors? If I only WOT occasionally, do you think it’s still safe to follow bmw’s recommend maintenance schedule?

Those pictures look awful, I thought our 50i has the same driveshaft and transmission as M.

Plugs should probably be swapped out for a colder set anytime you apply a tune with more boost, but this is a discussion that should be had with the tuner. Judging by the recent threads about plug replacement on a 50i, it seems that it needs new plugs a lot sooner than most other vehicles. This is a small price to pay for the awesome power/torque of this engine.

I generally do not follow BMWs maintenance schedule and perform oil changes at 1/2 the recommended interval. Any time you add power to an engine, you are putting more stress on the parts and fluids, thus a more frequent oil change interval should be considered.

The forward driveshaft is the same as the X5M. The rear is different, but the difference is likely only length due to the fact that the X5M uses a different (electronic M) differential. Both utilize the ZF 8 speed automatic transmission, but they do have different suffix on the transmission part number, indicating some small difference.

My guess is that the twisted driveshaft in the above picture is from a car making a lot more than Stage 1 HP. I wouldn't worry too much about the driveline of the X5.

Originally Posted by DuSh

I also found out that we have 11.5psi stock lol.

Originally Posted by perry8912

Increasing stock 11.5psi to 18-19psi, seems really pushing it....

When I was doing some stock runs before installing the RC Ultimate, I saw boost pressures around 14psi. After the installation, I saw 15-16psi. That 2 psi was responsible for an easy 50hp & 50 ft/lbs. 14psi to 18psi isn't as crazy of an increase as 11.5 to 18.

[CT335xi]

Originally Posted by Rotzy

Plugs should probably be swapped out for a colder set anytime you apply a tune with more boost, but this is a discussion that should be had with the tuner. Judging by the recent threads about plug replacement on a 50i, it seems that it needs new plugs a lot sooner than most other vehicles. This is a small price to pay for the awesome power/torque of this engine.

I generally do not follow BMWs maintenance schedule and perform oil changes at 1/2 the recommended interval. Any time you add power to an engine, you are putting more stress on the parts and fluids, thus a more frequent oil change interval should be considered.

The forward driveshaft is the same as the X5M. The rear is different, but the difference is likely only length due to the fact that the X5M uses a different (electronic M) differential. Both utilize the ZF 8 speed automatic transmission, but they do have different suffix on the transmission part number, indicating some small difference.

My guess is that the twisted driveshaft in the above picture is from a car making a lot more than Stage 1 HP. I wouldn't worry too much about the driveline of the X5.





When I was doing some stock runs before installing the RC Ultimate, I saw boost pressures around 14psi. After the installation, I saw 15-16psi. That 2 psi was responsible for an easy 50hp & 50 ft/lbs. 14psi to 18psi isn't as crazy of an increase as 11.5 to 18.

This makes more sense 14 to 18 psi or 4 psi increase which would justify the 100 hp gain, not bad 25 awhp per pound of boost!

[DuSh]

Originally Posted by perry8912

Those pictures look awful, I thought our 50i has the same driveshaft and transmission as M.

Oh no, I didn't mean to scare you or anything, I'm all in for tunes myself. As Rotzy mentioned it's same ZF8 transmission, but the thing is X5M has only 540lbft torque on dyno. Both BM3 and Bpc tunes for our 50i have showed more than that already (575wtq and 602wtq)

Yeah, that particular X5 50i twisted his driveshaft due to traction control issues. What I think happened is TC/DSC applied brakes while engine was opposing it and pushing hard. That resulted in the weakest link - driveshaft twisting lol. I don't think that is common. I posted it just because it was kinda cool and it shows torque we are dealing with is no joke. Also, as Rotzy said that X5 had a lot more going on, it has turbos running on 24psi on jb4 + meth. It was on n54tech forum - I'll post a link if i find it.

[DuSh]

Originally Posted by Rotzy

When I was doing some stock runs before installing the RC Ultimate, I saw boost pressures around 14psi. After the installation, I saw 15-16psi. That 2 psi was responsible for an easy 50hp & 50 ft/lbs. 14psi to 18psi isn't as crazy of an increase as 11.5 to 18.

Ah, I see. That makes more sense to me. 14psi sounds about right. I took 11.5psi from a pdf that I found. The pdf can be wrong.

[AZTWW]

Originally Posted by DuSh

Ah, I see. That makes more sense to me. 14psi sounds about right. I took 11.5psi from a pdf that I found. The pdf can be wrong.

Yeah, Denso at PTF said it was 14psi but your post made me second guess. maybe that is the n63 and not the TU?

[perry8912]

Originally Posted by Rotzy

Plugs should probably be swapped out for a colder set anytime you apply a tune with more boost, but this is a discussion that should be had with the tuner. Judging by the recent threads about plug replacement on a 50i, it seems that it needs new plugs a lot sooner than most other vehicles. This is a small price to pay for the awesome power/torque of this engine

Other then change plugs more often, what else? I was told the coils and injectors are tend to failure even on stock engine. Maybe HPFP as well?

[AZTWW]

Originally Posted by perry8912

Other then change plugs more often, what else? I was told the coils and injectors are tend to failure even on stock engine. Maybe HPFP as well?

BMW injectors, used across their many platforms, have gone through many revisions over the years. I don't know that they will be much issue but coils can go bad, as one of our members experienced recently. Plugs are a given as mine had to be changed even before the tune on stock with only 35k miles.

Other than that, the Stg 1 tunes should be pretty straightforward. Some of us have upgraded to the X5M airfilters for $100 to supply more airflow. That is about it.

[DuSh]

Originally Posted by perry8912

Other then change plugs more often, what else? I was told the coils and injectors are tend to failure even on stock engine. Maybe HPFP as well?

HPFP is good on X5. Only plugs and coils mainly. BTW they are not expensive. X5M plugs are dirt cheap $4 for a plug (you need to gap them yourself to your liking). Newest Bosch coils (new design) are about $28 per coil. You can buy a set of 8, but even 1 extra coil would be good to have in case you need to swap them. It's a DIY job, nothing hard.
This is really not that different than a n55 6-cyl. engine. We just have 2 more plugs and 2 more coils

[delviacv2]

Originally Posted by DuSh

One more caution I would add - please do not abuse WOT starts from the dig - it wears transmission (our ZF8 is rated at 660lbft - so with a tune we are already at 600lbft level) and transfer case and I even saw a photo of a X5 50i tuned that broke driveshaft due to huge torque at the start and he apparently forgot to turn DSC off. Other than that - we should be good. Just my opinion.

Looks like the X5M drive shaft is $800 more than the 50i, maybe be is thicker/stronger

That Torque is impressive

50i
https://www.getbmwparts.com/oem-part...ft-26107589129

X5M
https://www.getbmwparts.com/oem-part...ft-26107850370

[perry8912]

Originally Posted by DuSh

HPFP is good on X5. Only plugs and coils mainly. BTW they are not expensive. X5M plugs are dirt cheap $4 for a plug (you need to gap them yourself to your liking). Newest Bosch coils (new design) are about $28 per coil. You can buy a set of 8, but even 1 extra coil would be good to have in case you need to swap them. It's a DIY job, nothing hard.
This is really not that different than a n55 6-cyl. engine. We just have 2 more plugs and 2 more coils

If the injectors and hpfp are reliable, then that sounds pretty promising. May I have the part number for the new coils?

Thanks

[DuSh]

Originally Posted by perry8912

If the injectors and hpfp are reliable, then that sounds pretty promising. May I have the part number for the new coils?

Thanks

BOS-0221504470 Bosch coil that is a same design for almost every BMW currently in production from 1 series to M6 and X6M and even Alpina.

OEM designation part# is 12138647689 (also Bosch). I believe these are same coils, but designated differently.

https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_In...-8-647-689-M14

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...-12131712219x8

https://www.amazon.com/Bosch-0221504.../dp/B004AG9ILM

[Maverik259]

Originally Posted by DuSh

BOS-0221504470 Bosch coil that is a same design for almost every BMW currently in production from 1 series to M6 and X6M and even Alpina.

OEM designation part# is 12138647689 (also Bosch). I believe these are same coils, but designated differently.

https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_In...-8-647-689-M14

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...-12131712219x8

https://www.amazon.com/Bosch-0221504.../dp/B004AG9ILM

Haha amazon stocks there at my local warehouse and I can get them same day so I am not worried at all. Thanks for this info Dush!

[frenchie1013]

Originally Posted by DuSh

BOS-0221504470 Bosch coil that is a same design for almost every BMW currently in production from 1 series to M6 and X6M and even Alpina.

OEM designation part# is 12138647689 (also Bosch). I believe these are same coils, but designated differently.

https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_In...-8-647-689-M14

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...-12131712219x8

https://www.amazon.com/Bosch-0221504.../dp/B004AG9ILM

I also have an N54 335i and the coils are from Eldor....would those work on the N63Tu?

[DuSh]

Originally Posted by frenchie1013

I also have an N54 335i and the coils are from Eldor....would those work on the N63Tu?

Yes, Eldor is even better, as they might have most recent coil version. Eldor is one of the "new" BMW oem suppliers. I completely forgot about Eldor! Thanks for reminding!

[DuSh]

A must have for every 50i owner! Roll in style with oem oil bag!

[frenchie1013]

Originally Posted by DuSh

A must have for every 50i owner!

Speaking of oil, whats the recommendation for oil? I'm using liqui moly on my 335i and it's been great.

[perry8912]

Originally Posted by DuSh

BOS-0221504470 Bosch coil that is a same design for almost every BMW currently in production from 1 series to M6 and X6M and even Alpina.

OEM designation part# is 12138647689 (also Bosch). I believe these are same coils, but designated differently.

https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_In...-8-647-689-M14

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...-12131712219x8

https://www.amazon.com/Bosch-0221504.../dp/B004AG9ILM

Okay, Thanks for all these info. I'm not a handy man, so I probably will do all the maintenance work at dealer or indy shop.

Now, let me get this straight. After tune, I should change plugs and coils together every 30k miles or just plugs itself? Will it be okay if I just run stock plugs instead of 1 step colder? Other maintenance like oil change 5-8k miles, transmission, transfer case, and differential oil change every 60k miles. Fuel filter and coolant should be life time? And injectors, hpfp and waste-gate wont be an issue after the tune, right?

I'm a newbie with car modding, so please bear with me with dumb questions.

[Maverik259]

Originally Posted by frenchie1013

Speaking of oil, whats the recommendation for oil? I'm using liqui moly on my 335i and it's been great.

There isn't just one. Many solid options available.

[DuSh]

Originally Posted by perry8912

Okay, Thanks for all these info. I'm not a handy man, so I probably will do all the maintenance work at dealer or indy shop.

Now, let me get this straight. After tune, I should change plugs and coils together every 30k miles or just plugs itself? Will it be okay if I just run stock plugs instead of 1 step colder? Other maintenance like oil change 5-8k miles, transmission, transfer case, and differential oil change every 60k miles. Fuel filter and coolant should be life time? And injectors, hpfp and waste-gate wont be an issue after the tune, right?

I'm a newbie with car modding, so please bear with me with dumb questions.

You can stay with your stock plugs (what's your mileage?), but if/when you'll get pinging/jerking at WOT - you might start getting misfires and maybe even infamous message "drive-train malfunction error...". In that case you'll need to diagnose car for error codes and most probably change plugs. Don't touch coils until they go bad or you have a specific cylinder misfiring even after you changed plugs. You can swap bad coil then (you don't have to change all 8). I would invest in either Bimmercode OBD device to read errors and be able to diagnose simple things at your convenience without having to go to dealer for every single issue. Even better if you can install e-sys, insta/rheingold (can be downloaded for free) - then you'l be able to do a lot of stuff yourself. Check coding threads.

I think 5-8k oil changes are fine (you can also just out of curiosity send your oil for analysis to blackstone labs - some people have done it and so far it looks like N63TU is holding very good, low chromium - so piston rings are excellent, etc). For the rest you need to follow maintenance schedule, but keep in mind you might want to be careful when going to dealer for maintenance: you'll need to flash back to stock at least (and possibly swap plugs to stock ones if you are going due to misfire, because if they will change plugs and see that you have X5M ones - you might get in trouble about warranty depending on the dealer). I would change ZF8 transmission every 60k for sure - because I don't believe in lifetime fluids and ZF itself recommends fluid/filter change. Fuel filter should be fine in US (gasoline quality is good). Coolant is a shady area - ideally you might want to change it at least at 100k. BMW coolant system is very good and tight, but coolant still looses it's qualities over time.
Wastegate is fine on X5 50i - we have quite reliable turbos - failures due to wastegate are very rare (I haven't seen one so far).

IMHO most important thing when you are tuned in 50i - is good fuel (91 octane sucks), good plugs/coils and timely oil changes. Everything else is not much different from any other car. If you live in hot climate like AZ or FL - I would think about either getting a E85 tune or installing a meth kit for cooling.

There are also some other things available to prolong engine life like a cooler thermostat swap (the one that opens earlier and keeps lower temps) and/or downpipes - that will reduce exhaust temps that stock cats (catalytic converters) that are creating 1400F right in the middle of engine and slowly frying everything in engine: hoses become brittle, gaskets may leak, valve stems loose elasticity etc. However, downpipes will cause emission issues so it's not that popular, at least in US/Canada and especially for X5 50i - that is usually a family car for majority.

In sum, just follow common sense, research and think twice before committing to some expensive mods, do timely maintenance and you should be fine in the long run.

[CT335xi]

Originally Posted by frenchie1013

Speaking of oil, whats the recommendation for oil? I'm using liqui moly on my 335i and it's been great.

I just use the twin power 5/30 from the dealer, picked up some at Ridgefield BMW , it about $8 bucks a quart , you can probably find it cheaper on line.