HELP! 17 X5M with 52k miles Complete Engine Failure

[BMWNYC1]

If they drained 8 quarts you are fine in terms of the filter issue. Youre not going to have catastrophic failure bc of a filter lol That being said, grenade'ed engines will almost always be the fault of an oil failure, usually the pump. A failed pump or rod bearing failure are my guesses.

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Originally Posted by Bankerbry

Hi guys. Just a brief update, and I will be posting photos soon from the servicing dealer. I did receive full documentation of the findings including any error codes. The oil filter is Mahle which from my understanding is an oem supplier to BMW. When I questioned the dealer about this he started asking questions if the vehicle has had an aftermarket tune. It has not.
He stated that the service history looked good, but the previous owner missed the 1200 mile service and the 40,000 mile service. Really feels to me that they are grasping at straws!!
I definitely think I got their attention by asking for full documentation and indicated to them that I won't roll over and have lawyered up just in case.
Happy New Year!! I appreciate the help from this community

They are trying to f*ck you hard If the had the balls to claim a Mahle filter is aftermarket. That is who makes the OE filters for the S63TU, the only difference is the M logo silkscreened on it and double the price (M tax is real). I would call them out on that BS, put them on the spot why the lied about the filter. Dealer makes much more if they get you to pay out of pocket vs billing BMWNA for warranty work they have to wait to get reimbursement for so motivation is high to screw you. I would be very suspect of this dealer, they sound like shady asshats.

[Bankerbry]

Happy Near Year everyone!!! Here's to hoping 2022 is a better year!
Attached are the pictures and documentation that I received from the dealer. Please let me know your thoughts. Adding to my frustration is the lack of urgency! Still nothing from BMW of NA, and the dealer is in no hurry to start the repairs.

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Originally Posted by Bankerbry

Happy Near Year everyone!!! Here's to hoping 2022 is a better year!
Attached are the pictures and documentation that I received from the dealer. Please let me know your thoughts. Adding to my frustration is the lack of urgency! Still nothing from BMW of NA, and the dealer is in no hurry to start the repairs.

Definitely looks like bearing debris however I find it disturbing they are ready to charge you 35k without even knowing the root cause. The X5 is unique in that it takes a seasoned mechanic less then 20minutes to access the oil pump & rod/main bearings as access is that simple and easy. All it appears they did is pop the oil filter and kill your battery. Actually ignore that previous statement. They stand to make much more money charging you vs BMW for billable hours so it makes perfect sense. Be ready to fight every step of the way, some dealers will go to bat for their customers, this is clearly not one of them.

What is interesting is there is no low oil pressure codes. Now the crappy thing is your truck only has a oil pressure switch, not a sensor so the true oil pressure at the time of failure will never be known however it was at least more then 7psi, which is where the oil pressure switch triggers. So I am thinking more along the lines of a internal oil passage blockage, something that would starve the main/rod bearings however not trip the low oil pressure switch.

More investigation is needed as as mentioned before, some basic inspection of the bearings/oil pump/lower end can be done while the engine is in the truck but it's looking more like engine removal and complete breakdown is needed. This will be very costly and a gamble that some defect that can be traced back to BMW would be found.

I don't see BMWNA or the dealer doing this. My prediction is they will continue to pound the lack of documented service records/oil changes as the cause. Being that they tried to blame a OEM oil filter as the cause should tell you everything you need to know about their service department.

If you wish to pursue, lawyer up and dig your heels in. First priority would be to get your hands on any service documentation from the previous owner or dealership it was serviced at.

If you decide not to go head to head with BMW, 20k will get you a built forged engine from one of the tuners like RK. You will be able to get most of this investment cost back out when you decide to sell.

[blown99]

Originally Posted by Bankerbry

It was purchased from Sill-Terhar Motors in Broomfield, CO

Ah ok. They are a very reputable dealer, I've bought and serviced a few Ford/Lincoln's there over the years.

[Surgx5]

@Bankerbry

What state are you in? You may want to reach out to the state for assistance as well. Here in CA we have the Bureau of automotive repair that gets involved in situations like this as well as the department of insurance at times as well depending on the situation.

[sly1types]

Originally Posted by X5eM

I think RK Autowerks also does engine rebuilds? Guy on the forums here worked with them for his x5 although I don't believe he blew his engine and I'm unfamiliar with the process. Just spitballing to see if anything could be less costly.

If BMW won't help you out, I would go with RK autowerks, they have rebuilt stock spec and forged engines. They are the go to S63 builders. A local shop has put in a decent amount of them, mostly from failed M6s

[mrjsmith88]

Originally Posted by bmwx5er

I bought an extended warranty for this precise reason and peace of mind. Any update from the dealer on goodwill for the repair?

Where did you get the warranty because I'm searching and no one wants to cover the motor

[bmwx5er]

Originally Posted by mrjsmith88

Where did you get the warranty because I'm searching and no one wants to cover the motor

If your vehicle is still under factory warranty, I'd recommend US warranty. I bought it off a BMW X5 FB group member who also owns a Cadillac dealership in FL. Made one claim for Vanos solenoids that paid for nearly 50% of the total plan cost already.

[ajob]

Reading the various posts, I must say that I feel great sympathy towards the OP Bankerbry - what happened to him could have happened to any of us and the current response by BMW & associates looks to me unacceptable.

His car breaks down spectacularly, no obvious owner's mishandling appears evident and the seller's response seems to be: "bad luck, we have no clue about what happened and are not interested to find out, therefore our best recommendation is: please buy a new engine".

The scarce data supplied by the shop as posted here is ludicrous - our cars have sensors and memories just short of a space shuttle, the breakdown mode that happened is seriously worrying as and the disinterest by BMW & associates to understand and tell the customer what happened is outright indignant.

Just by scanning a full data dump, any decent BMW engineer should offer a highly likely description of what has happened - and not by looking only at the engine data; ABS wheel speed sensors vs engine rpms vs accelerator position vs MAP vs etc. etc. should reasonably cast light why the ignition was cut, the drivetrain disconnected and the engine restart electronically inhibited. F.i., even certain "voting failures" among the multiple accelerator position sensors could cause such a sudden "stop & stay stopped" outcome - and the engine would not even need to be damaged!

So, remembering "don't get mad, get even!", I would submit for consideration, before engaging any costly legal action, to write to both the federal NTSB and its State equivalent, with copy to BMW NA, BMW Germany and the car seller, something along these lines, in a cooperative (non-confrontational) tone:

"Ladies and gentlemen,

On (date, time) I recently suffered on my wife's car (type & registration) a potentially serious and still unexplained incident in (place) on a public 4-lane highway with my car . Maintenance records are available.

The car unexpectedly lost power (add chain of events with all details) and was then towed to (place).

Initial sensor and car data analysis by (...) has not yet allowed to identify any conclusive mechanical or software cause, which adds to my worry as the unexplained incident may repeat in less forgiving traffic circumstances.

Considering the traffic risk potential of this incident I hereby respectfully ask you to assist me in determining the still unknown causes so as to take the appropriate remedial action if necessary.

The car may be inspected at (...) until (...) unless you kindly advise otherwise.

Thanking in advance for your assistance, (salutation, etc.)"

The purpose of such action is to wake up the "BMW higher ups" and have them order some action.

Who knows, the OP may discover that the engine is fine and it was really a rare software cause 🤞!

[musa]

Brilliant post, Ajob.

[Blue By You]

Originally Posted by ajob

Reading the various posts, I must say that I feel great sympathy towards the OP Bankerbry - what happened to him could have happened to any of us and the current response by BMW & associates looks to me unacceptable.

His car breaks down spectacularly, no obvious owner's mishandling appears evident and the seller's response seems to be: "bad luck, we have no clue about what happened and are not interested to find out, therefore our best recommendation is: please buy a new engine".

The scarce data supplied by the shop as posted here is ludicrous - our cars have sensors and memories just short of a space shuttle, the breakdown mode that happened is seriously worrying as and the disinterest by BMW & associates to understand and tell the customer what happened is outright indignant.

Just by scanning a full data dump, any decent BMW engineer should offer a highly likely description of what has happened - and not by looking only at the engine data; ABS wheel speed sensors vs engine rpms vs accelerator position vs MAP vs etc. etc. should reasonably cast light why the ignition was cut, the drivetrain disconnected and the engine restart electronically inhibited. F.i., even certain "voting failures" among the multiple accelerator position sensors could cause such a sudden "stop & stay stopped" outcome - and the engine would not even need to be damaged!

So, remembering "don't get mad, get even!", I would submit for consideration, before engaging any costly legal action, to write to both the federal NTSB and its State equivalent, with copy to BMW NA, BMW Germany and the car seller, something along these lines, in a cooperative (non-confrontational) tone:

"Ladies and gentlemen,

On (date, time) I recently suffered on my wife's car (type & registration) a potentially serious and still unexplained incident in (place) on a public 4-lane highway with my car . Maintenance records are available.

The car unexpectedly lost power (add chain of events with all details) and was then towed to (place).

Initial sensor and car data analysis by (...) has not yet allowed to identify any conclusive mechanical or software cause, which adds to my worry as the unexplained incident may repeat in less forgiving traffic circumstances.

Considering the traffic risk potential of this incident I hereby respectfully ask you to assist me in determining the still unknown causes so as to take the appropriate remedial action if necessary.

The car may be inspected at (...) until (...) unless you kindly advise otherwise.

Thanking in advance for your assistance, (salutation, etc.)"

The purpose of such action is to wake up the "BMW higher ups" and have them order some action.

Who knows, the OP may discover that the engine is fine and it was really a rare software cause 🤞!

This is great, thank you for posting.

[blown99]

Originally Posted by Bankerbry

It was purchased from Sill-Terhar Motors in Broomfield, CO

Hey man, I was talking to my pops about this as he's very astute when it comes to things like this.

He suggested you go back on Sill-TerHar to try to get them to take back the vehicle. Given the low miles it failed after your purchase. Like I said they are extremely reputable with a very good reputation so they may be willing to work with you.

If you run into troubles, reach out to Tom Martino. He has a lot of clout in Colorado and helps people with things like this all the time and given Sill-TerHar's big name I think you will be successful. I suspect it will be unlikely to get help with the repairs but I would bet he can help you get out of the vehicle and wash your hands if this. Another avenue to explore.

https://troubleshooternetwork.com

[Bankerbry]

Originally Posted by blown99

Hey man, I was talking to my pops about this as he's very astute when it comes to things like this.

He suggested you go back on Sill-TerHar to try to get them to take back the vehicle. Given the low miles it failed after your purchase. Like I said they are extremely reputable with a very good reputation so they may be willing to work with you.

If you run into troubles, reach out to Tom Martino. He has a lot of clout in Colorado and helps people with things like this all the time and given Sill-TerHar's big name I think you will be successful. I suspect it will be unlikely to get help with the repairs but I would bet he can help you get out of the vehicle and wash your hands if this. Another avenue to explore.

https://troubleshooternetwork.com

Hey, I appreciate your response.
I did go back to Sill-Terharr immediately when this happened and so far they have been less than helpful. In fact their used car sales manager Jeff called my wife and said "well maybe you should have bought the extended warranty and we don't know how you've treated the vehicle in 2 months" Needless to say, I wouldn't put up with that sh*t, so I contacted the owner immediately. We are still working with someone else there now. Not sure yet if they are going to offer any assistance. My request right away was for them to take the vehicle back and I would be glad to buy something else from them, but they refused.

[Bankerbry]

Originally Posted by ajob

Reading the various posts, I must say that I feel great sympathy towards the OP Bankerbry - what happened to him could have happened to any of us and the current response by BMW & associates looks to me unacceptable.

His car breaks down spectacularly, no obvious owner's mishandling appears evident and the seller's response seems to be: "bad luck, we have no clue about what happened and are not interested to find out, therefore our best recommendation is: please buy a new engine".

The scarce data supplied by the shop as posted here is ludicrous - our cars have sensors and memories just short of a space shuttle, the breakdown mode that happened is seriously worrying as and the disinterest by BMW & associates to understand and tell the customer what happened is outright indignant.

Just by scanning a full data dump, any decent BMW engineer should offer a highly likely description of what has happened - and not by looking only at the engine data; ABS wheel speed sensors vs engine rpms vs accelerator position vs MAP vs etc. etc. should reasonably cast light why the ignition was cut, the drivetrain disconnected and the engine restart electronically inhibited. F.i., even certain "voting failures" among the multiple accelerator position sensors could cause such a sudden "stop & stay stopped" outcome - and the engine would not even need to be damaged!

So, remembering "don't get mad, get even!", I would submit for consideration, before engaging any costly legal action, to write to both the federal NTSB and its State equivalent, with copy to BMW NA, BMW Germany and the car seller, something along these lines, in a cooperative (non-confrontational) tone:

"Ladies and gentlemen,

On (date, time) I recently suffered on my wife's car (type & registration) a potentially serious and still unexplained incident in (place) on a public 4-lane highway with my car . Maintenance records are available.

The car unexpectedly lost power (add chain of events with all details) and was then towed to (place).

Initial sensor and car data analysis by (...) has not yet allowed to identify any conclusive mechanical or software cause, which adds to my worry as the unexplained incident may repeat in less forgiving traffic circumstances.

Considering the traffic risk potential of this incident I hereby respectfully ask you to assist me in determining the still unknown causes so as to take the appropriate remedial action if necessary.

The car may be inspected at (...) until (...) unless you kindly advise otherwise.

Thanking in advance for your assistance, (salutation, etc.)"

The purpose of such action is to wake up the "BMW higher ups" and have them order some action.

Who knows, the OP may discover that the engine is fine and it was really a rare software cause 🤞!

Thank you so much for the extremely helpful post!
I agree 100%, and will take these steps immediately.

Just a brief update: I still haven't heard anything from the BMWNA rep, but the servicing dealer called yesterday and they expect to hear from them today.
The purchasing dealer in CO, (Sill-Terhar Motors) texted me yesterday and explained that due to the fire in CO they were evacuated yesterday. They really have been ess than helpful, and just buying time hoping BMW will step up so they can wash their hands of it.
I will let every know if I hear anything today.
I'm extremely frustrated that we are down a vehicle, have increasing service fee's and we've really gotten absolutely no answers or time line. And nobody cares.

[MBoss_F86]

Is there something like lemon law for used cars in CO?

I had exact same issue with an used Nissan Murano in 2012. Bought the car from a private dealer in NJ. Engine failure in couple of months, lot of metal shavings in oil pan. Engine bearing damage is the exact words. Nissan dealer quoted around $9k for new engine. Nissan said this is due to negligence in maintenance by previous owner.

NJ dealer took the car back replaced engine with a used one gave it back to me. He also gave me a rental car for 2 months. He did all this because of lemon law. I sold the car as soon as I got it back. Lost 5k in less months. sucks. good luck dude.

[JMAN1111]

Originally Posted by Bankerbry

Thank you so much for the extremely helpful post!
I agree 100%, and will take these steps immediately.

Just a brief update: I still haven't heard anything from the BMWNA rep, but the servicing dealer called yesterday and they expect to hear from them today.
The purchasing dealer in CO, (Sill-Terhar Motors) texted me yesterday and explained that due to the fire in CO they were evacuated yesterday. They really have been ess than helpful, and just buying time hoping BMW will step up so they can wash their hands of it.
I will let every know if I hear anything today.
I'm extremely frustrated that we are down a vehicle, have increasing service fee's and we've really gotten absolutely no answers or time line. And nobody cares.

Originally Posted by Bankerbry

Thank you so much for the extremely helpful post!
I agree 100%, and will take these steps immediately.

Just a brief update: I still haven't heard anything from the BMWNA rep, but the servicing dealer called yesterday and they expect to hear from them today.
The purchasing dealer in CO, (Sill-Terhar Motors) texted me yesterday and explained that due to the fire in CO they were evacuated yesterday. They really have been ess than helpful, and just buying time hoping BMW will step up so they can wash their hands of it.
I will let every know if I hear anything today.
I'm extremely frustrated that we are down a vehicle, have increasing service fee's and we've really gotten absolutely no answers or time line. And nobody cares.

If it were my car … I would definitely have an attorney contact the service manager especially since they're telling you all this nonsense about the filter, etc.

[LOW4LYF]

Sorry to be the bad guy but: Buying any used or second hand M car without at least power train warranty is silly.

With skipped break in service, the vehicle never had any warranty at all anyway. Please don't tell me it may still have the break in differential fluid etc.? Also big question as the 1200 miles service was skipped...is BMW running any type of special break in oil and how long was the vehicle driven with the first oil from the factory??? There is a reason why the first oil change is required after just 1200 miles.

There will be zero goodwill from BMW with that history.

OP sorry for your trouble but you should know better in first place. I was in the same situation as you but choose a 3rd party warranty on my currently almost 100k miles F85, fingers crossed.

[9vapors]

Originally Posted by LOW4LYF

Sorry to be the bad guy but: Buying any used or second hand M car without at least power train warranty is silly.

With skipped break in service, the vehicle never had any warranty at all anyway. Please don't tell me it may still have the break in differential fluid etc.? Also big question as the 1200 miles service was skipped...is BMW running any type of special break in oil and how long was the vehicle driven with the first oil from the factory??? There is a reason why the first oil change is required after just 1200 miles.

There will be zero goodwill from BMW with that history.

OP sorry for your trouble but you should know better in first place. I was in the same situation as you but choose a 3rd party warranty on my currently almost 100k miles F85, fingers crossed.

Maybe he's like me and couldn't find any warranty that would cover this power train…

[LOW4LYF]

Originally Posted by 9vapors

Maybe he's like me and couldn't find any warranty that would cover this power train…

Dealerships are usually happy to help you with that. He mentioned 3rd party warranty was a option.

There is a reason these cars cost used between 50-60K instead of 100K+.

Not trying to be rude but more realistic.

I passed on a used F80 CS from a dealer sold as is after figure that vehicle was coded from the original owner.

[9vapors]

Originally Posted by LOW4LYF

Dealerships are usually happy to help you with that. He mentioned 3rd party warranty was a option.

There is a reason these cars cost used between 50-60K instead of 100K+.

Not trying to be rude but more realistic.

I passed on a used F80 CS from a dealer sold as is after figure that vehicle was coded from the original owner.

I hear you, I don't mind hearing both sides of the possibilities. In his position, I'd try to fight it in every way possible, but as you mentioned, it's gonna be an uphill battle.

[LOW4LYF]

Originally Posted by 9vapors

I hear you, I don't mind hearing both sides of the possibilities. In his position, I'd try to fight it in every way possible, but as you mentioned, it's gonna be an uphill battle.

Absolutely! All of us would try, no questions about that.

Fingers crossed for OP!