Tuned my F15 50i - BM3

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Originally Posted by pits200

I'm back and forth on catch cans. I like the concept but don't like the potential for additional crankcase pressure.

With that being said, I believe your points are valid but the concept of oil decreasing octane is typically more prevalent on port injection cars. With DI, that shouldn't be much of a concern. And remember, most fuel has a built in octane additive which is e85. The majority of fuels have a 10% e85 blend which obviously slightly decreases gas mileage but from a performance perspective, e85 is great. The effective octane of e85 is like 107 octane. Addtionally, e85 helps with egts especially on direct inject cars. So I can't see how running a 93 tune while using quality 93 gas is the problem with the bm3 tune.

The catch cans are connected inline with the connection to the turbo inlet tubes, so there is no increase in CC pressure.

Below is a pic of my previous gen N63 with catch-cans. It uses a more complex setup as the previous gen also had connections to the lower intakes, the TU will need just two port catch cans as mentioned above so it easier to setup. The concept is the same however and you can see how the stock turbo inlets are connected to the catch cans, retaining the stock flapper valve. I have over 50K miles on this setup, the amount of oil that it catches that would otherwise be ingested is impressive. The TU has a revised oil/air separator design but still greatly benefits from catch-cans. Also in the pic below you will notice vacuum line running to the oil cap, this is for a vacuum gauge I have in the cabin so I can monitor Crankcase pressure at all times.

Make no mistake, even a slight oil mist has an octane lowering effect. This is amplified by the higher IAT's, boost pressure, and back pressure caused by tunes. Not to mention the carbon buildup it causes which in turn create hotspots in the combustion chambers and pistons. Reducing oil mist trapped in the intake stream to as close to zero as possible has multiple advantages on tuned and non-tuned engines alike.

The added alcohol blend is accounted for in the octane rating. Don't make the mistake in thinking 91 or 93 is actually higher because of the Alcohol content.

There is a problem or people wouldn't be bending rods. 91/93 is barely cutting it, toss in high ambient temps, some extra blowby/oil mist, and carbon buildup plus pushing a 5300lb tank and rod bending knock becomes a very real threat. I believe the 91/93 recommendation is BARE Minimum, use at your own risk. IMHO, you should run 93 for stage 1 and 95+ for stage 2. I wish they would update this, it might cut it on the N63TU in RWD 550i, but a F15 50i pushes everything to the next level in terms of torque loads and stresses.

Running higher octane/octane booster is cheap insurance for a 30k engine IMHO. But to each their own.

[pits200]

So I'm a glutton for punishment and wanted to see if the issue was this tune or because my prior engine had 97k miles on it.

For the past week the new engine has run amazing, completely new short engine, new coils and new plugs too. I flash to stage 1 93 tune and let the car get to operating temp. Literally the first log I get a knock event and the acceleration feels like im driving a trans am.

I took a 5 second log and I'm a moron for not doing this before, BM3 on their stage one tune is way too aggressive. I've included a log and this ots tune is an engine breaker. The amount of ignition they are running at such low rpms is a recipe for disaster. Unfortunately, I can't see what the IA targets are for the tune but they obviously want people to feel it in the butt dyno and the way you gain that is through torque. I can't see any reason for running this kind of advance on a stage 1 tune. If this was an E85 tune, I'd give them a pass but one a 93 tune with engines that don't typically love high advance, this is moronic, stupid, idiotic, etc......

I'm all of the names I listed above for not logging and checking this earlier.

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f88...729b488dc3d9c4

[pennsiveguy]

Originally Posted by skoold2003

I think you've convinced me to at least add boostane at every fillup. And I'll look into a catch can too. Thanks

I'd be cautious about a regular diet of Boostane. I was using 1/4 to 1/3 of a can of the Professional in every tankful of 93-octane e10. After about 6 months, I got a CEL and Bimmerlink revealed that it's throwing codes for both cats operating below their minimum efficiency threshold. I'm guessing that the surface of the media in the cats is coated with the dreaded orange MMT residue (Trump dust?), same as everything else from the plugs to the exhaust tips, and they're no longer able to perform their function very well. I also noticed my Dragy 0-60 times go up about a half-second, so I suspect the cats are somewhat restricted and are costing me power. I've stopped using the Boostane and have used a few different "Cat Cleaner" products, to no avail. I have an appointment to get the cats and O2 sensors physically inspected. Car is back to stock tune, and if I put the BM3 tune back on, I'll use e85 to boost octane, and/or go to the 91-octane tune instead of the 93-octane one I was running.

Just my $.02-worth, from personal experience.

[skoold2003]

Originally Posted by pennsiveguy

I'd be cautious about a regular diet of Boostane. I was using 1/4 to 1/3 of a can of the Professional in every tankful of 93-octane e10. After about 6 months, I got a CEL and Bimmerlink revealed that it's throwing codes for both cats operating below their minimum efficiency threshold. I'm guessing that the surface of the media in the cats is coated with the dreaded orange MMT residue (Trump dust?), same as everything else from the plugs to the exhaust tips, and they're no longer able to perform their function very well. I also noticed my Dragy 0-60 times go up about a half-second, so I suspect the cats are somewhat restricted and are costing me power. I've stopped using the Boostane and have used a few different "Cat Cleaner" products, to no avail. I have an appointment to get the cats and O2 sensors physically inspected. Car is back to stock tune, and if I put the BM3 tune back on, I'll use e85 to boost octane, and/or go to the 91-octane tune instead of the 93-octane one I was running.

Just my $.02-worth, from personal experience.

I appreciate the advice and in reality I have only used octane boost (royal purple) on about half of my fill-ups now. That's the thing that I like about the Racechip tune vs bm3 is that it can be a little more fine tuned by me. I know the bm3 guys are really helpful in fine tuning but it's a process.

Sorry to hear your cars internals are covered in Trump dust.. A lot of people are saying that stuff is hard to get out!

[pennsiveguy]

Originally Posted by skoold2003

I appreciate the advice and in reality I have only used octane boost (royal purple) on about half of my fill-ups now. That's the thing that I like about the Racechip tune vs bm3 is that it can be a little more fine tuned by me. I know the bm3 guys are really helpful in fine tuning but it's a process.

Sorry to hear your cars internals are covered in Trump dust.. A lot of people are saying that stuff is hard to get out!

Thanks. I'm not optimistic about finding a way to clean them out. The Trump Dust came off the exhaust tips easily enough when I washed the car, but how in the heck am I supposed to scrub out the honeycomb in a cat? I have access to a pressure washer, but I'm reluctant to go blasting away on them for fear I'd break them and completely defeat the purpose of what I was trying to accomplish.

[skoold2003]

Originally Posted by pennsiveguy

Thanks. I'm not optimistic about finding a way to clean them out. The Trump Dust came off the exhaust tips easily enough when I washed the car, but how in the heck am I supposed to scrub out the honeycomb in a cat? I have access to a pressure washer, but I'm reluctant to go blasting away on them for fear I'd break them and completely defeat the purpose of what I was trying to accomplish.

I've seen some posts around the forum about people replacing their stock cats for not too much. It would surely be a different sound though.

[pennsiveguy]

Originally Posted by skoold2003

I've seen some posts around the forum about people replacing their stock cats for not too much. It would surely be a different sound though.

I actually bought, and still have, AR downpipes. I was thinking that if the cats are borked, I'll replace them with DPs instead of new cats. But I have a custom exhaust, posts about which you can see on the x50i muffler delete thread, and the sound is perfect and the volume is perfect as well. I'll probably end up selling them.

[pennsiveguy]

Originally Posted by Rotzy

I think it all depends on what is wrong with your vehicle and how lenient your dealership is. For example: if you just have some misfires or other fairly minor engine abnormality, and you flash back to stock, your dealership will probably not deep dive in to the computer and discover the tampered ECU. Repairs will likely be covered. But, if you have a hole in your hood from a piston departing the block, you bet your sweet tushy that the tech will do a thorough investigation into the cause that will likely include a detailed inspection of the computer. In that case, I would not expect the warranty to cover you.

It really all comes down to how confident you are with the strength of your drivetrain and how comfortable you are with the remote possibility of a high repair bill should something catastrophic happen. For me, I am running the more conservative Stage 1, 91 tune (even though I run high quality 93 octane fuel) and am not the least bit worried. I am out of warranty.



What was the culprit? Plugs, coils? Were you able to get it sorted out?

Let's dispel some rumors and conjecture regarding tunes and dealerships and warranties. It's long overdue. I've read countless posts full of hypotheticals and assumptions by well-meaning folks. Most of it was rubbish. I'm here to deliver some truth.

TLDR: They will find out you tuned your car. They will care. And you may be fucked.

I flashed the first revision of the Stage I BM3 93 octane tune, since I have easy access to what is claimed to be 93 octane fuel available nearby, both at home and at my cabin. I swapped in the M plugs and air filters and did a muffler delete, which you can read about in that thread. The tune made the X5 run like a scalded dog - 0-60 in 3.54s. Faster than the new X5M competition, if you go by the published numbers. For a couple of months, I was the fastest SUV on the Dragy leaderboard. I diligently logged my runs using the excellent BM3 logging software, and since there were a few knocks detected I decided to protect my investment by augmenting my fuel with Boostane Professional, since Boostane claims that while it's not legal for on-road use, it won't damage cats. The knocks went away, and there was much love. Every time I washed the car I scrubbed the orange "Trump dust" MMT residue off the exhaust tips, but I chalked this up to "that's the deal I've made; this is what it takes." When the updated 93 octane tune came out, I updated to that.

Sometime in April, after roughly 8K miles on a steady diet of 93 octane and 1/4-can of Boostane Pro per tankful, I see a CEL for both cats running below their efficiency threshold. I tried a few of the "Cat Cleaner" products to no avail. So since I'm still under warranty and to replace the cats is about $1800 per side, I figure I'll let the dealership have a look and see what they can come up with. Hoping that they would discover that the cats and/or O2 sensors had failed and were eligible for replacement under warranty.

Imagining myself as the tech who got handed such a car and knowing that this error is the result of an insufficient difference between 2 O2 sensors, I imagined that I'd probably begin the diagnosis by looking at the pre- and post-cat O2 sensors. I might physically inspect them, to see if they were fouled. I might run an electronic diagnosis on them, to see if they were returning correct values.

What actually happened was in fact very different. As best I can determine, they never performed any of those diagnostic steps. The first thing they did, apparently, was peer into the ECU software and sniff around for changes. And they found plenty of interesting things. The SA even knew how many times the software had been changed - the same number of times I'd flashed the various versions of the BM3 tune. And since they detected fuckery, my car is now flagged system-wide and they've got wide latitude to declare anything that goes wrong with it to be a result of my tune.

I accept full responsibility for all of this. I knew the risks, and I accepted them. I do, however, have a problem with Boostane claiming that their product doesn't affect catalytic converters. I'd bet a month's pay that if/when I take those cats off and peer into them with a scope, there will be orange MMT residue everywhere in the honeycomb. And that that residue on the cat media is what's preventing them from operating properly. Apparently when they claim that their product doesn't harm cats, what they mean is merely that the cats won't catch fire and burn down your garage and your house. Or that the cats won't become demonically possessed and rip themselves out of your exhaust system and strangle your toddlers.

Here's the repair order I got from my BWM dealership:

[hufington]

Originally Posted by pennsiveguy

Let's dispel some rumors and conjecture regarding tunes and dealerships and warranties. It's long overdue. I've read countless posts full of hypotheticals and assumptions by well-meaning folks. Most of it was rubbish. I'm here to deliver some truth.

TLDR: They will find out you tuned your car. They will care. And you may be fucked.

I have been always telling this on the forum and in real world. There is no way that you can get away with modifying a BMW and then when something goes wrong claiming that it needs to be fixed under warranty, IF the service is ready and willing to investigate as it was in your case. There is no need to cry and call foul play like most do when something happens because of the tune. Either one goes for it and takes full responsibility when something occurs (like you did) and live with the consequences or doesn't touch it. Some may get lucky and the service foreman or mechanics don't really care, but it is like gambling. Mostly, they do not care about mechanical mods like muffler delete or DPs, but when you mess with the ECU, it is a different story. I hope everything goes the way you expect. Keep on enjoying the beast.

[pennsiveguy]

Originally Posted by hufington

I have been always telling this on the forum and in real world. There is no way that you can get away with modifying a BMW and then when something goes wrong claiming that it needs to be fixed under warranty, IF the service is ready and willing to investigate as it was in your case. There is no need to cry and call foul play like most do when something happens because of the tune. Either one goes for it and takes full responsibility when something occurs (like you did) and live with the consequences or doesn't touch it. Some may get lucky and the service foreman or mechanics don't really care, but it is like gambling. Mostly, they do not care about mechanical mods like muffler delete or DPs, but when you mess with the ECU, it is a different story. I hope everything goes the way you expect. Keep on enjoying the beast.

Thank you, sir. I definitely enjoy the beast; none of this has gotten in the way of that. This is merely a hassle. A complication. A distraction. I can and will pay for the cats, if need be. I can/will pay for the O2 sensors or whatever else needs fixing. I am not a victim in any of this. I just wanted to dispel some rumors and conjecture for those who have tunes or are contemplating such, so that they are armed with real facts and aren't basing important decisions on assumptions and hypotheticals.

[AychShake]

Originally Posted by pennsiveguy

Thank you, sir. I definitely enjoy the beast; none of this has gotten in the way of that. This is merely a hassle. A complication. A distraction. I can and will pay for the cats, if need be. I can/will pay for the O2 sensors or whatever else needs fixing. I am not a victim in any of this. I just wanted to dispel some rumors and conjecture for those who have tunes or are contemplating such, so that they are armed with real facts and aren't basing important decisions on assumptions and hypotheticals.

Good response man! Being civil and respectful to each other on this forum is super important.

[hufington]

Originally Posted by pennsiveguy

Thank you, sir. I definitely enjoy the beast; none of this has gotten in the way of that. This is merely a hassle. A complication. A distraction.

I agree. You have to pay to play. You can't have your cake and eat it, too. If one is not ready for possible ramifications of further modding an already well-engineered vehicle, he should try to enjoy his very nice ride as it is. It is a beast from factory anyway.

[skoold2003]

Originally Posted by pennsiveguy

Thank you, sir. I definitely enjoy the beast; none of this has gotten in the way of that. This is merely a hassle. A complication. A distraction. I can and will pay for the cats, if need be. I can/will pay for the O2 sensors or whatever else needs fixing. I am not a victim in any of this. I just wanted to dispel some rumors and conjecture for those who have tunes or are contemplating such, so that they are armed with real facts and aren't basing important decisions on assumptions and hypotheticals.

Nice post, I think a key takeaway from it is not to run on the edge of a tune. Mine knocked on a 91 ACN tune with 91 and yours knocked on a 93 tune with 93. It's obvious that they're off on their tunes. I would think it would be prudent for anyone with bm3 to use 91 tune and fill up with 93.

[pennsiveguy]

Originally Posted by skoold2003

Nice post, I think a key takeaway from it is not to run on the edge of a tune. Mine knocked on a 91 ACN tune with 91 and yours knocked on a 93 tune with 93. It's obvious that they're off on their tunes. I would think it would be prudent for anyone with bm3 to use 91 tune and fill up with 93.

Agree 100%. The folks at ProtuningFreaks are top-notch and very helpful - they did a couple of revisions to my tune for me at no cost; what they came up with was what ended up being the v5 93-octane Stage I tune that they published for everyone to use. But they're really pushing their tunes to the edge of the envelope of what these engines will accommodate.

My plan is - once I get the cats issue resolved, one way or another - is to put the 93-octane tune back in and try using e85 as an octane booster. I have easy access to it, and it's what I switched to right after I got the CEL cat malfunction. Filling up with 12 gallons of e10 93-octane and 3 gallons of e85 yields about 95.5 octane, if the calculators I'm using are accurate. A few tankfuls' worth of tinkering should get me to a minimum acceptable octane number. At that point the limiting factor will likely be the HPFP, so I'll be on the lookout for lean conditions.

The wildcard where I live, and given that I drive the X5 year-round (which was exactly why I picked it) is that ambient temps range so widely (the difference between the highest high temp and the lowest low is typically 125-130 degrees F, over a calendar year), and air density and IATs vary along with them. That's a lot for any system to accommodate; some seasonal adjustments may be in order.

I love the tinkering factor of it, actually. And the really high "sleeper factor" when the car's dialed-in. Totally worth it. Zero regrets.

[scotty339]

Originally Posted by pennsiveguy

Thank you, sir. I definitely enjoy the beast; none of this has gotten in the way of that. This is merely a hassle. A complication. A distraction. I can and will pay for the cats, if need be. I can/will pay for the O2 sensors or whatever else needs fixing. I am not a victim in any of this. I just wanted to dispel some rumors and conjecture for those who have tunes or are contemplating such, so that they are armed with real facts and aren't basing important decisions on assumptions and hypotheticals.

Good write up. Enjoyable coffee read this morning.

It is the name of the game with it comes to aftermarket performance and modifications/flash tuning.

As the saying goes, play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Not saying that goes towards modifying cars as a whole or your situation, however, I do feel that a more relevant fact is that people need to be prepared, fiscally and mentally for issues that can and eventually will arise when modifications of an under warranty vehicle and expecting the dealer to cover issues that are correlated to the issue/modification.

I've seen some dealers make some pretty thin connections and vague accusations. I had a Subaru dealer tell me I blew up my 6MT in my STI solely because of my aftermarket KW suspension. Ooookay.

My warranty is up on my x35i in early 2021 and Id probably be going Dinan or MPPK. Dont need to much as its my wifes vehicle primarily, but enough to for some added umph.

[pennsiveguy]

Originally Posted by scotty339

Good write up. Enjoyable coffee read this morning.

It is the name of the game with it comes to aftermarket performance and modifications/flash tuning.

As the saying goes, play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Not saying that goes towards modifying cars as a whole or your situation, however, I do feel that a more relevant fact is that people need to be prepared, fiscally and mentally for issues that can and eventually will arise when modifications of an under warranty vehicle and expecting the dealer to cover issues that are correlated to the issue/modification.

I've seen some dealers make some pretty thin connections and vague accusations. I had a Subaru dealer tell me I blew up my 6MT in my STI solely because of my aftermarket KW suspension. Ooookay.

My warranty is up on my x35i in early 2021 and Id probably be going Dinan or MPPK. Dont need to much as its my wifes vehicle primarily, but enough to for some added umph.

Thanks. I'm not hopeful for any warranty coverage on the cats or O2 sensors, though I will do my best to negotiate at least a split of the costs. I'll probably engage them in a debate when/if they claim that the tune caused the failures, to try to get them to make a logical case for their claim and back it up with empirical data. Because that's how I approach everything. I really doubt that they'll be able to make a convincing case that the damage was directly and solely caused by the tune, any more than I could prove a claim that the errors were caused by the tech picking his/her nose while they scanned the ECUs.

In the end, though, BMW holds the winning hand. Short of legal action that would burn a ton of my time and money, there's no way I can compel them to conclusively prove their claims, nor to put parts into my car without me paying for them in order to get back my car. They're well aware of this, and I'm sure they'll remind me of it if it appears that I've forgotten.

[pennsiveguy]

Originally Posted by hufington

I have been always telling this on the forum and in real world. There is no way that you can get away with modifying a BMW and then when something goes wrong claiming that it needs to be fixed under warranty, IF the service is ready and willing to investigate as it was in your case. There is no need to cry and call foul play like most do when something happens because of the tune. Either one goes for it and takes full responsibility when something occurs (like you did) and live with the consequences or doesn't touch it. Some may get lucky and the service foreman or mechanics don't really care, but it is like gambling. Mostly, they do not care about mechanical mods like muffler delete or DPs, but when you mess with the ECU, it is a different story. I hope everything goes the way you expect. Keep on enjoying the beast.

The payoff for which I'm grateful, though I'm not thrilled it's come at my expense, is that my experience dispels the mountains of hearsay, rumors, conjecture and outright BS regarding what happens when you turn your flash-tuned car over to the dealership while it's under warranty. In contemplating the tune I must have read 100 posts around the issue of detectability. Most of them were rubbish, it turns out. Now we all know how it actually works. 'Bout f*ckin' time.

[hufington]

Originally Posted by skoold2003

...It's obvious that they're off on their tunes...

True. Most people also do not take into account that the majority of these "tuners" may be not as qualified as they claim to be except very few of them. I have seen and heard of a lot of examples, where so called tuners went to extremes disregarding necessary safety margins in order to claim the most increase in hp and torque and when the inevitable happened, they told the customers that they have been already forewarned about possible issues. Actually, the tuners are also being forced to offer something more aggressive than the next tuner as most buyers are on the lookout for the highest possible numbers.

[Sophisticated Redneck]

Originally Posted by pennsiveguy

I'd be cautious about a regular diet of Boostane. I was using 1/4 to 1/3 of a can of the Professional in every tankful of 93-octane e10. After about 6 months, I got a CEL and Bimmerlink revealed that it's throwing codes for both cats operating below their minimum efficiency threshold. I'm guessing that the surface of the media in the cats is coated with the dreaded orange MMT residue (Trump dust?), same as everything else from the plugs to the exhaust tips, and they're no longer able to perform their function very well. I also noticed my Dragy 0-60 times go up about a half-second, so I suspect the cats are somewhat restricted and are costing me power. I've stopped using the Boostane and have used a few different "Cat Cleaner" products, to no avail. I have an appointment to get the cats and O2 sensors physically inspected. Car is back to stock tune, and if I put the BM3 tune back on, I'll use e85 to boost octane, and/or go to the 91-octane tune instead of the 93-octane one I was running.

Just my $.02-worth, from personal experience.

I think you bring up a good point about the Octane boosters, they should be used sparingly if you still have catalytic converters. I too got the same codes you did after approx using it for 20K miles in every tank.

At the time I just assumed it was due to the massive oil consumption (about a quart every 500-700 miles due to bad valve guide seals that did the cats in. However it makes sense after reading you going through the same thing now that the MMT coating it leaves on the cats would interfere with the interaction between the platinum & exhaust gases.

This does take a long time to build up it appears, tens of thousands of miles of constant use so IMHO It can and still should be used in place if a proper octane gas cannot be obtained but again should be done sparingly if the stock cats are in place.

[pits200]

I stated this a bunch of times, octane booster is unnecessary. It's cheaper and better for your car to just add 2 gallons of e85 to the tank, the wideband sensors can adjust for the difference.

As for bm3, they finally published a new tune. If anyone is running the old one, I highly recommend you get off it, there is no doubt in my mind that the tune has caused many engine failures across the n63tu platform.

Also, I don't think halim from bm3 doesn't actually knows shit about tuning. His logic for why he backed off torque and boost because it snaps rods is stupid. The majority of thr issues aren't from too much torque, it's from poor tuning causing detonation.

If they can't create a proper tune to go with their product, they shouldn't even offer the tune with the bm3 package.

[CT335xi]

Originally Posted by pits200

I stated this a bunch of times, octane booster is unnecessary. It's cheaper and better for your car to just add 2 gallons of e85 to the tank, the wideband sensors can adjust for the difference.

As for bm3, they finally published a new tune. If anyone is running the old one, I highly recommend you get off it, there is no doubt in my mind that the tune has caused many engine failures across the n63tu platform.

Also, I don't think halim from bm3 doesn't actually knows shit about tuning. His logic for why he backed off torque and boost because it snaps rods is stupid. The majority of thr issues aren't from too much torque, it's from poor tuning causing detonation.

If they can't create a proper tune to go with their product, they shouldn't even offer the tune with the bm3 package.

Any word if the new revised tune is better or more importantly safer?

[pits200]

Originally Posted by CT335xi

Any word if the new revised tune is better or more importantly safer?

I've had no misfires and no knock detection on the pulls. From that perspective it's light years better.

I still can't believe how many engines the prior tune most likely blew. Go onto the bm3 Facebook site, plenty of n63tu failures with people running ots bm3 tune.