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      12-16-2020, 04:49 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by stein_325i View Post
High-Performance Kia Stinger and Genesis G70 to compete with M/AMG/RS.
Biermann has to be cooking that up, right?
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      12-16-2020, 05:03 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stein_325i View Post
High-Performance Kia Stinger and Genesis G70 to compete with M/AMG/RS.
Biermann has to be cooking that up, right?
I wish but I don't think so. The stinger is likely on its way out, and I think that Hyundai has said while a G70 Hi-Po variant is possible, it won't happen soon. Right now Biermann seems to be focused on the cheaper hot hatches and sporty sedans like the new Elantra N, Sonata N and K5-GT. Also I think Hyundai is trying to make an affordable mid-engine sports car.
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      12-16-2020, 06:00 PM   #47
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3.0 CSL with 1400kg of weight.
Even oversized kidneys look good on this concept.
This.

I'm debating on whether I would have preferred to have it with a b58 or s58; maybe even LCI'd to include more modern BMW materials.
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      12-16-2020, 06:06 PM   #48
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2009 E60 M5 CSL
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      12-17-2020, 05:03 PM   #49
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I wish they made reliable, updated versions of gorgeous cars that are actually shit to own. Like the Jag e-type and the Alfa GTA. I know there are restomod versions of these cars but they're all like half a million dollars. How about something a little more attainable??
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      12-17-2020, 06:37 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Darth One View Post
I wish they made reliable, updated versions of gorgeous cars that are actually shit to own. Like the Jag e-type and the Alfa GTA. I know there are restomod versions of these cars but they're all like half a million dollars. How about something a little more attainable??
Agree. The Series III Jaguar XJ is a beautiful car, inside and out. Reliability was bad. Chevy 350 V8 conversions were common, and not desirable in my view. I had a Series III XJ-6 and loved that car, but the time, effort and money to keep it going in original condition didn't fit with the needs of my growing family at the time.

The XJ doesn't exist in Jag's lineup anymore, sadly.
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      12-17-2020, 07:31 PM   #51
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I wish Honda brings back the Prelude, a fun to drive, daily with Manual Transmission, no extra doors that doesn't break the bank
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      12-17-2020, 10:22 PM   #52
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I wish Honda brings back the Prelude, a fun to drive, daily with Manual Transmission, no extra doors that doesn't break the bank
That's where much of the "v-tech kicked in yo" story began.
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      12-18-2020, 01:21 AM   #53
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A practical electric car with reasonable daily performance and somewhere near 500mi range, for under $30k/£20k
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      12-18-2020, 01:56 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Son of Achilles View Post


2009 E60 M5 CSL

For newer folks or those with shorter memories, this was a one-off M GmbH production made to celebrate the 25th Anniversary of the BMW M5 (German: 25 Jahre M5).

It featured a 5.5L V10 (theoretically an "S85B55") good for 580 HP mated to a 7-speed DCT and lightweight construction, including a carbon fiber roof and featured other goodies like a carbon fiber intake plenum (the noise!).



What a machine and a shame they didn't put it in production (though I'm sure the M engineers would've loved to)

Come to think of it, most of those BMW M prototypes (i.e., E46 M3 Touring, E31 M8, E34 M5 Convertible, E39 M5 Touring, X5 LM etc.) belong in this thread but my favorite and one that also hasn't been mentioned is the E31 M8.



It's my favorite BMW they never made because the story of the car has been a sort of urban legend and folk tale for BMW fans. No other BMW has this kind of mystical legendary allure. Cars like the E30 M3 are legends because of what we know about them. But the E31 M8 is a legend because of what we didn't know and still don't know about it.



It was and is clouded in so much secrecy yet so revered with awe and it's the only one of the 'what if' BMWs (outside of a modern M1) that you can't build yourself, no matter how much money and resources you may have.



Its pedigree is connected directly or indirectly to BMW Motorsport history, the 1999 BMW victory at Le Mans, Team BMW/Schitnzer Motorsport, the McLaren F1, Paul Rosche, and more...even though it didn't even officially exist until 10 years ago.



The E31 M8 prototype comes with a spec sheet and bloodline that would make the modern M8 a plebeian and unworthy of the nameplate by comparison.



It had a naturally aspirated V12, related to, or similar to the one that powered the McLaren F1, with individual throttle bodies with carbon fiber intakes and intake runners, mated to a 6 speed manual in a body constructed with lightweight materials.



Since this one-off prototype shrouded in so much mystery and obscurity, for decades, most people (and the internet) thought for the longest time that it either did not exist or that the prototype was destroyed in the 1990s...that is until it resurfaced in the summer of 2010, still in the collection of BMW M's now famous 'secret underground garage'.



Partially thanks to this obscurity, there are many versions and conflicting accounts regarding details of the actual V12 engine in the M8 prototype.
We know the S70B56 powered the E31 850CSi...and few know that it was actually a true M GmbH engine and the 850CSi even bore the chassis VIN prefix "WBS" in authentic M fashion, meaning it is a full-fledged M-car/product just not badged as such.
But it lacked individual throttle bodies or a sophisticated (compared to other contemporary motorsport units) cylinder head being an SOHC (24 valve) design and a block that was a slightly massaged M70.
We also know that the S70/2 is the famous V12 that powered the McLaren F1 and that the S70/3 (aka P75) was the racing version that brought BMW that famous 24 Hr Le Mans victory in the V12 LMR.
So what about the M8 Prototype?



The most accepted and most widely propagated version that circulates the internet over the years is built upon years of rumors and insider knowledge, an amalgamation of urban legend and forum talk...BMW at one point even acknowledged and tried to clear up some of it...but nonetheless it says that there is a 550 HP 6.0L V12, the S70/1 that was allegedly bespoke to the M8 Prototype. Most of the press articles and reports also echo this.



However, BMW recently published their own article about the M8 Prototype, further adding to the confusion and mystery.
In the BMW article, they claim official specs from the S70/2 variant, which would make it identical to the BMW V12 in the McLaren F1, except the quoted horsepower figure at 640 HP, is even higher than the standard McLaren F1.

This contrasts with the long line of previous knowledge and reports that always cited 550 HP from approx. 6000cc of displacement.



So either BMW made a typo, or they don't recognize the existence of the S70/1, or everyone was wrong all this time.
I guess we'll never really know.
But it doesn't really matter...because the key takeaway is that the E31 M8, a lightweight coupe of a brilliant design with a manual gearbox and an NA V12 pushing 550-640HP is the best BMW they never made...and a strong contender for the best car of all time that they never made.

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      12-18-2020, 06:02 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by R N M View Post
M3/4 with NA motor like Porsche does with GT3 and GT4 for 911 and Cayman.

BMW lost that focus on performance that they had with E46 M3 CSL.
agreed, except you forgot about the M2

the M2 has a hooligan bad ass look about it that is begging for a small naturally aspirated v8 in there (like the old s65)
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      12-18-2020, 06:04 AM   #56
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Anything from BMW's Giftschrank (Poison Storage). A place where one-off concept's live in constant limbo. Featured there is, E36 M Compact/Ti, E46 M3 Touring, E53 X5 V12, E31 M8, V16 E32 767iL, M3 Utes, E39 M5 Touring, E34 Convertible, etc.
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      12-18-2020, 12:05 PM   #57
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Quote:
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Come to think of it, most of those BMW M prototypes (i.e., E46 M3 Touring, E31 M8, E34 M5 Convertible, E39 M5 Touring, X5 LM etc.) belong in this thread ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by stein_325i View Post
Anything from BMW's Giftschrank (Poison Storage). A place where one-off concept's live in constant limbo. Featured there is, E36 M Compact/Ti, E46 M3 Touring, E53 X5 V12, E31 M8, V16 E32 767iL, M3 Utes, E39 M5 Touring, E34 Convertible, etc.
I realized it would be very unfair to mention the V12 X5 LM in this thread and not provide the awesome sound of the S70/3 (from the V12 LMR) powered X5 as well.

So here it is, with the one and only Hans-Joachim Stuck





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      12-18-2020, 12:59 PM   #58
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What's in the passenger seat here? A sweet 90s printer/fax machine all buckled in? lol

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      12-18-2020, 02:10 PM   #59
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I'd guess at a data-logging setup. Well spotted though...man, that thing is huge!
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      12-18-2020, 03:54 PM   #60
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What's in the passenger seat here? A sweet 90s printer/fax machine all buckled in? lol

Some kind of mobile fax/photocopy service.
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      12-18-2020, 03:57 PM   #61
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      12-18-2020, 04:16 PM   #62
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care to explain ?
Sure. Watch this video. It explains it all.

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      12-18-2020, 05:17 PM   #63
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Sure. Watch this video. It explains it all.
ok ? its quick. still slower than alot of modified SUVs like the trackhawk and upcoming durango hellcat with some mods on it. doesn't make as much power as other 6 cylinder motors like the 2jz and vr38 from the GTR.. both of which can support over 1500whp builds. not sure even pure turbo M4's can reach that level. lets not even get into the v8tt sedans that were faster on that guys list.
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      12-18-2020, 05:21 PM   #64
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ok ? its quick. still slower than alot of modified SUVs like the trackhawk and upcoming durango hellcat with some mods on it. doesn't make as much power as other 6 cylinder motors like the 2jz and vr38 from the GTR.. both of which can support over 1500whp builds. not sure even pure turbo M4's can reach that level. lets not even get into the v8tt sedans that were faster on that guys list.
The 2jz, while absolutely crafted by the hands of God, with Jesus and Mary watching (yawn) needs a bit of work to achieve 1500. How acutely aware of each and every limitation of the b58 or s58 are you?

Also, I LOVE the Jeep offerings. I do. But I cannot compare the build quality of the two, let alone Dodge. I joined this conversation late, but I’m failing to buy into a percentage of your perspective here. Can you help me out?
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      12-18-2020, 05:30 PM   #65
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The 2jz, while absolutely crafted by the hands of God, with Jesus and Mary watching (yawn) needs a bit of work to achieve 1500. How acutely aware of each and every limitation of the b58 or s58 are you?

Also, I LOVE the Jeep offerings. I do. But I cannot compare the build quality of the two, let alone Dodge. I joined this conversation late, but I’m failing to buy into a percentage of your perspective here. Can you help me out?
im not arguing those points such as cost or build quality of the vehicle.. the guy just said the b58/s58 was the second coming. they can make power but its not going to run with the big boys at TX2k or half mile events.
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      12-18-2020, 05:31 PM   #66
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im not arguing those points such as cost or build quality of the vehicle.. the guy just said the b58/s58 was the second coming. they can make power but its not going to run with the big boys at TX2k or half mile events.
Fair enough. I’m taking the more cautious approach and do not believe they are at their pinnacle. I hope they don’t “n54 fizzle out.” So far, it’s quite promising.
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