BMW X5 and X6 Forum 2014-Current
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   BMW X5 and X6 Forum (F15/F16) > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > Off-Topic Discussions Board > Watches

View Poll Results: Which watch maker's design do you like best?
A. Lange & Sonne 18 7.69%
Audemars Piguet 37 15.81%
Bedat 0 0%
Bell & Ross 20 8.55%
Blancpain 6 2.56%
Breguet 4 1.71%
Breitling 63 26.92%
Cartier 19 8.12%
Chopard 7 2.99%
Concord 2 0.85%
Corum 4 1.71%
Frank Muller 6 2.56%
Hublot 40 17.09%
Patek Philippe 39 16.67%
Panerai 59 25.21%
Omega 64 27.35%
Ulysse Nardin 14 5.98%
Vacheron Constantin 7 2.99%
Timex 6 2.56%
Hamilton 10 4.27%
Citizen 14 5.98%
Seiko 8 3.42%
Movado 10 4.27%
Rolex 82 35.04%
Krieger 0 0%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 234. You may not vote on this poll

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      11-21-2013, 05:30 AM   #155
tony20009
Major General
tony20009's Avatar
United_States
827
Rep
5,667
Posts

Drives: BMW 335i - Coupe
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Washington, DC

iTrader: (0)

How can there be so little love for Breguet and Vacheron Constantin? They both make such awesome watches and are arguably half the quartet of the top four watch brands, the other two being PP and ALS.

All the best.
__________________
Cheers,
Tony

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
'07, e92 335i, Sparkling Graphite, Coral Leather, Aluminum, 6-speed
Appreciate 0
      11-21-2013, 11:59 AM   #156
1MOREMOD
-
1MOREMOD's Avatar
United_States
11156
Rep
23,118
Posts

Drives: Race car->
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: check your mirrors

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tony20009 View Post
How can there be so little love for Breguet and Vacheron Constantin? They both make such awesome watches and are arguably half the quartet of the top four watch brands, the other two being PP and ALS.

All the best.
not as many people wear true dress watches as opposed to sport, and not in that price range?
__________________

02 Tiag e46 M3|6MT|GC plates|MCS c.o.|GC bars|GC race control arms|GC bushings|BW eng. & tran. mounts|subframe kit|BW race shifter|BW Jaffster|Euro header|BW exhaust|K&N c.a.i.|Epic race tune|Rouge pulleys|Seibon CF hood|CSL bumper|apr gt 250 & splitter|ST-40|XR-2|SS lines|half cage|Recaro profi|Profi 2 harness|BMWpedals|BW studs|
Appreciate 0
      11-26-2013, 12:42 PM   #157
tony20009
Major General
tony20009's Avatar
United_States
827
Rep
5,667
Posts

Drives: BMW 335i - Coupe
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Washington, DC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD View Post
not as many people wear true dress watches as opposed to sport, and not in that price range?
I hear you. And that makes sense to me as well. Yet, then I look at the retarded number of votes for Patek Philippe. I say that because at the apex of the watch world are Patek, Vacheron, JLC, Breguet and A. Lange and Sohne.

Sure, other brands may from time to time time have products that wander into that rarefied air up there, but as brands that quintet stand alone and above the rest, including Rolex and Omega. Yes, one could arguably lump Audemars in with them and even a handful of boutique brands, along with the offerings of several individual watchmakers who are still alive.

I wish I had put JLC on the list, if only to see where they came out. But at the time, I already knew I was buying a JLC, so it didn't matter to me what folks might have thought about the brand. I can only wonder how many folks would sooner buy a Rolex XYZ over the competing JLC watch, even knowing that the JLC is more highly regarded and better finished and usually a bit less expensive.

Don't that that as a put down of Rolex. I'm not a Rolex hater; I just understand what it is and what it is not. There's no question that in at one situation -- Rolex Submariner -- basic upscale dive watch (not professional grade as is the Sea-Dweller) -- it's hard to find a comparable watch, yet JLC does offer one, as does Vacheron Constantin. Patek's and Audemars' comparably purposed items are priced well above the Submariner, so they aren't really considerations for many who might otherwise cross shop the brands.

All the best.
__________________
Cheers,
Tony

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
'07, e92 335i, Sparkling Graphite, Coral Leather, Aluminum, 6-speed
Appreciate 0
      11-26-2013, 12:52 PM   #158
Nate4641
Major
Nate4641's Avatar
United_States
106
Rep
1,112
Posts

Drives: '07 M Roadster
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Warner Robins, GA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
What? No casio?
__________________
Appreciate 0
      11-26-2013, 01:54 PM   #159
tony20009
Major General
tony20009's Avatar
United_States
827
Rep
5,667
Posts

Drives: BMW 335i - Coupe
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Washington, DC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate4641 View Post
What? No casio?
You are correct. No Casio.

All the best.
__________________
Cheers,
Tony

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
'07, e92 335i, Sparkling Graphite, Coral Leather, Aluminum, 6-speed
Appreciate 0
      11-26-2013, 02:21 PM   #160
originalgoods13
Captain
Canada
264
Rep
612
Posts

Drives: 2014 X5 xDrive35i
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Calgary, Canada

iTrader: (0)

I have recently set my eye on Tag Heuer's Carrera Calibre 5 or 8. I know it looks bland on the pictures but they are beautiful in real life.
__________________
2014 xDrive35i xLine | M Performance Power Kit | BMW Performance 599M | eBay fender flares | Invisihitch
Appreciate 0
      11-26-2013, 03:06 PM   #161
tony20009
Major General
tony20009's Avatar
United_States
827
Rep
5,667
Posts

Drives: BMW 335i - Coupe
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Washington, DC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by originalgoods13 View Post
I have recently set my eye on Tag Heuer's Carrera Calibre 5 or 8. I know it looks bland on the pictures but they are beautiful in real life.
I like the looks of the 8 better, and it doesn't look like some other brand's watch that quickly comes to mind. Anymore, there're almost no absolutely unique styles among the mainstream watchmakers, so I'm sure sooner or later one can find something that resembles it or that it resembles.

The 5 looks fine too, but a bit too much like an Omega Aqua Terra, but hopefully it's not as thick. They are both nice watches, but I will admit being partial to the co-axial 8500 inside the Omega. Seeing as both are around $4K (I think), I'd pick the Omega, mainly because that coaxial movement is thought in the league of great watches that include JLC and others, all more highly regarded than Rolex.

I'd nonetheless be very happy with the Tag. It's a very nice watch too and in truth if one isn't a "watchie" there's no good reason to prefer one over the other, aside from personal taste.

All the best and enjoy your new Tag.

Omega Aqua Terra (automatic)




Tag Calibre 5 Carrera
__________________
Cheers,
Tony

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
'07, e92 335i, Sparkling Graphite, Coral Leather, Aluminum, 6-speed
Appreciate 0
      11-26-2013, 03:12 PM   #162
PINeely
Lieutenant Colonel
PINeely's Avatar
United_States
1060
Rep
1,915
Posts

Drives: 2013 535i, 2015 Tundra 1794
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Jackson, MS

iTrader: (2)

My vote goes to JLC as well. I don't own one yet but I have my eyes set on a Master Control Chronograph. Gotta sell the GMT first.
Appreciate 0
      11-27-2013, 12:03 AM   #163
tony20009
Major General
tony20009's Avatar
United_States
827
Rep
5,667
Posts

Drives: BMW 335i - Coupe
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Washington, DC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PINeely View Post
My vote goes to JLC as well. I don't own one yet but I have my eyes set on a Master Control Chronograph. Gotta sell the GMT first.
Have you considered the JLC Reverso Duo? Not only does it offer dual time functionality, but if you set both sides of the watch to the same timezone, it's essentially two excellent, seminal watches, in one case. The two sides look different and it can be had on a bracelet or strap (black or brown are standard). It comes in a few sizes. The Reverso was and continues to be sports watch and thus carries the durability of such a thing. Styling wise, it stradles the line between what we today think of as dressy and sporty, whereas the Rolex GMT Master II is always a sport watch.

JLC's watch that is more like the GMT Master II is the Squadra Hometime which features and exhibition back, something one doesn't see on Rolexes as their movements are nothing to look at.

Price wise, all the JLC models are competitive with their Rolex counterparts, most often being a bit less expensive, while offering more "stuff" for the buck.



I'm not down on Rolex, I'm just more "up" on JLC, and especially when it comes to a dual timezone capability watch. The bracelet version offers the greatest flexibility style wise -- working for dress as well as casual -- because the bracelet looks, well, like a bracelet, and can thus be worn just like one in both casual and dress situations. With a brown strap, the watch is fine for anything but formal wear, unless one happens to wear dark chocolate brown-ish black, custom made (because there isn't such a thing offered off the rack...LOL) tuxedos.

All the best.
__________________
Cheers,
Tony

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
'07, e92 335i, Sparkling Graphite, Coral Leather, Aluminum, 6-speed
Appreciate 0
      11-28-2013, 12:28 AM   #164
jlspeed29
Major
jlspeed29's Avatar
354
Rep
1,371
Posts

Drives: F80 SO ZCP CCB
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Somewhere along PCH...

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 335 coupe  [4.00]
ill never forget one of my first bosses told me " tag makes $700 watches and $7000 watches.... i dont wear tags "
__________________
A fisherman always sees another fisherman from afar
Appreciate 0
      11-28-2013, 12:28 AM   #165
jlspeed29
Major
jlspeed29's Avatar
354
Rep
1,371
Posts

Drives: F80 SO ZCP CCB
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Somewhere along PCH...

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 335 coupe  [4.00]
whats the skinny on Zenith watches? some of them are ridic'
__________________
A fisherman always sees another fisherman from afar
Appreciate 0
      11-28-2013, 01:50 AM   #166
tony20009
Major General
tony20009's Avatar
United_States
827
Rep
5,667
Posts

Drives: BMW 335i - Coupe
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Washington, DC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlspeed29 View Post
ill never forget one of my first bosses told me " tag makes $700 watches and $7000 watches.... i dont wear tags "
I have a pretty firm opinion of Tag watches and I have two of them that I like very much. One of those two -- an Aquaracer -- is a watch I wear often for any number of mundane activities. I'm certainly not a Tag-hater as former boss is. Actually, I'm not all that negative about any watch, even when a watch in question is one I don't want to own.

I shared my thoughts on Tag here -- http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=907804. Admittedly it's a position based on thought not passion. If one is just hellbent on having this or that Tag, there's no sense to my line of thinking. Pathos is always a better cause for a watch purchase than is logos.

The thing is that for me, Tag doesn't offer a watch that makes my blood boil, even though they make plenty that I think are nice/nice looking. And I know that all their watches are far more than adequately durable and reliable. Tag watches are very easy to own and live with. They don't challenge anyone's sensibilities, but then they aren't meant to. Yes, I'm sure there must be one or two that are on the more extreme end of things, at least from a Tag perspective, but as a brand, that's not where Tag is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlspeed29 View Post
whats the skinny on Zenith watches? some of them are ridic'
Zenith make very good watches overall. One of the ones that's received a good deal of acclaim for it's mechanical accomplishment is the El Primero tricolor chrono one they have out right now. I think it's butt ugly, but I know it's a very well designed (functionally) well made and well engineered, watch.

For a time, Rolex used Zenith's chrono movement in its Daytona line of watches. Regardless of what one thinks about Rolex, they consistently make/offer very reliable products that last without trouble for years. If nothing else, it's safe to assume that if one upper tier watch company employs a movement made by another upper tier watchmakers, that movement is good solid one that is worthy of respect. That must be so for no company, regardless of their market position, would risk their reputation on someone else's product if that product weren't up to snuff. And most certainly not Rolex, although PP, VC, JLC and many others wouldn't either.

The main thing I think about Zenith is that they are a company that hasn't done much with their movements in a long time. That's good and it's bad. It's good because the ones one most often encounters are rock solid and time has shown that to be so. It's bad because it hardly makes paying a huge premium for them worth doing so. If I see one at an excellent discounted price, it'd be well worth getting. At full price, I'd look elsewhere. Again, that's a logically based perspective and not everything about watch purchases is, or needs to be, logical.

This is the tri-color El Primero that I think is horrible looking. Others like it, however. Suum cuique. That said, if one is specifically seeking a Zenith or a chrono, the El Primero is well worth considering, and the same watch without the three colors is just fine. Ideally one would choose the striking tenth version, but the standard one is quite a fine piece too and it comes in a host of sizes from 38mm to 42mm (so far as I know).



As a side note, several of the top tier makers have/do use JLC movements in their pieces, be they straight drop ins or modified versions. Among the top makers that have used JLC's movements are Patek Philippe, Audemars Piguet, and IWC as well as Vacheron Constantin.

If there were going to be a "holy trinity" of watchmakers, it'd arguably be PP, JLC and VC, or it'd be PP, Breguet and VC. The only thing being that there's no justifiable reason, other than that a trinity has three members, to leave Breguet or JLC out of the group, so there's not really a "holy trinity." Because of JLC's very reasonable pricing, it's a real darling of a watch to buy right now.

Short of just liking the look of someone else's watch better, I can see only one reason to choose a different brand over JLC at the moment. That reason is movement finishing. But the truth is that to get better finishing in a comparable watch, one has to pay tons more. Consider the JLC MUT against any Calatrava/Gondolo, Classique or Patrimony and you are talking roughly $5K to $15K more, but you will get more refined looking movements, even if the engineering and durability are no different.
__________________
Cheers,
Tony

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
'07, e92 335i, Sparkling Graphite, Coral Leather, Aluminum, 6-speed
Appreciate 0
      11-29-2013, 12:38 AM   #167
TSM330i
2006 330i, TSM, Black, manual, sport
TSM330i's Avatar
United_States
733
Rep
3,733
Posts

Drives: '17 C2, GTI, Z4 3.0si Racecar
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Chester Springs, PA

iTrader: (2)

^ Just a quick side note on the fact that Rolex used Zenith movements in the Daytona. Rolex actually changed about 50% of the movement (reengineered it), so it is a movement based on a Zenith movement.

That being said: My vote goes for Rolex. Fatastic timepieces with stellar quality. I wore a Sub Date for 10 years and it never missed a beat, plus I sold it for a profit.
Now I own two Daytona's (white & black face SS) and a Hulk Sub Date.

Before all the negative comments come in, I own a Bell & Ross BR01-92 PVD and a Paneria 111 also.
__________________
2017 Porsche C2 - manual of course
2015 GTI S
2008 BMW Z4 3.0si Coupe - because racecar
Appreciate 0
      11-29-2013, 07:04 AM   #168
tony20009
Major General
tony20009's Avatar
United_States
827
Rep
5,667
Posts

Drives: BMW 335i - Coupe
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Washington, DC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TSM330i View Post
^ Just a quick side note on the fact that Rolex used Zenith movements in the Daytona. Rolex actually changed about 50% of the movement (reengineered it), so it is a movement based on a Zenith movement.

That being said: My vote goes for Rolex. Fatastic timepieces with stellar quality. I wore a Sub Date for 10 years and it never missed a beat, plus I sold it for a profit.
Now I own two Daytona's (white & black face SS) and a Hulk Sub Date.

Before all the negative comments come in, I own a Bell & Ross BR01-92 PVD and a Paneria 111 also.
Let's both hope they don't. Objective observations and facts as you offered above, are welcomed and good for everyone -- learning, sharing, etc. -- but just bashing something for no tangible reason is puerile and really has no place in a forum of adults.

I like the Sub (and its Sea-Dweller offspring) as well. For a long time, it's been a very hard watch to beat, and one with few real direct competitors. Consider what choices one has as alternatives to a Sub, and the consider when they came into being. There simply aren't that many alternatives, even now, yet there are a few.

Submariner Date or No Date -- Alternatives much have the following traits:
  • In-house movement with a proven track record for durability and reliability
  • 38 to 42 mm diameter
  • Bracelet version if the alternative comes in both strap and bracelet variants
  • Same dial general color as one offered by Rolex ideally, but if not, fine
  • Must be a dive watch
  • Price Range: $7500 to $9000 (give or take about $500)
  • Uncomplicated watch, but dates are acceptable
  • Chronometer or a non-debatable track record of producing at least chronometer-level performance
  • New watch sold by an AD or grey market (not eBay) seller and accompanied by either the manufacturer's or seller's warranty (not pre-owned)
  • Not a limited edition watch
If I'm thinking of a one to one comparison, the JLC Navy Seals, Vulcain, Omega Seamaster (which isn't a pure manufacture watch, but is more than competent enough to be a competing item), Breitling, Ulysse Nardin and Clerc are all that come to mind.


The thing is that when one considers them, even ignoring a need to be price equivalent, what one finds is:

  • UN - in-house requires a chronograph watch (UN-118), so not a direct comparison to a Sub.
  • Breitling - Super Ocean watch is ETA inside; their B01 movement -- a chrono -- is a fitting competitor to the Daytona, but not a Sub.
  • JLC - meets the requirements and sturdy enough but not their best work, even if it's a solid desk diver and good looking enough.
  • Vulcain - meets the criteria. It's a quality piece.
  • Omega - a genuine item that is a very fair competitor to the Sub. Should be okay on reliability if one gets the 8500 co-ax movement, but the 2500 co-axial is the horological analogue to the N54 engine in the E9x cars we love, and Omega did exactly what BMW did: issue an updated variant ASAP.
  • Clerc - a very worthy competitor, able to hold its own with the Sub and the SD. They are a boutique brand that's been around since the 1870s, but were largely unknown until 1997 when the current generation of the family took a more active interest in upping the brand's recognition and profits, no doubt. All the same, they have achieved some horological innovations that are noteworthy. The look is very different from that of the Sub, but suum cuique, the point is to find a comparable product, not one that looks just like a Sub.
Now while I have no reservation about the Clerc; it's a casual/sport watch just as any dive watch is. But I know many folks will wear Subs with suits, and some will even try to pull off a James Bond and wear it with a tux. Regardless of what I think about that, I can see damn well that the Clerc is less able to do double duty. The JLC isn't quite as sartorially versatile as the Sub, and with its extra crown, neither is the Seamaster Planet Ocean.

So, yes, tons of folks will rag on the Rolex Sub for any number of reasons, I have yet to see on credible, objective argument against it, aside from individuals' simply preferring something else due to the common price variance. I'd venture to say the same of Rolex's Datejust models as well insofar as for a semi-dress styled daily wearer, it's hard to beat.

No, Rolex don't have the absolute best movements in the world; other folks offer ones that are far more refined. Rolex having the most reliable movements in the word; plenty of ETA and other folks movements are just as long lasting and tolerant of abuse. What Rolex does have, however, is the best compromise of features -- looks, reliability, proven and deserved reputation, and price (if one considers that one Rolex Sub can give one the wearability of one true dive watch and one semi-dress watch) -- when compared against a great many directly competitive products.

All the best.








__________________
Cheers,
Tony

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
'07, e92 335i, Sparkling Graphite, Coral Leather, Aluminum, 6-speed
Appreciate 0
      11-29-2013, 11:52 AM   #169
TSM330i
2006 330i, TSM, Black, manual, sport
TSM330i's Avatar
United_States
733
Rep
3,733
Posts

Drives: '17 C2, GTI, Z4 3.0si Racecar
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Chester Springs, PA

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tony20009 View Post
Let's both hope they don't. Objective observations and facts as you offered above, are welcomed and good for everyone -- learning, sharing, etc. -- but just bashing something for no tangible reason is puerile and really has no place in a forum of adults.

I like the Sub (and its Sea-Dweller offspring) as well. For a long time, it's been a very hard watch to beat, and one with few real direct competitors. Consider what choices one has as alternatives to a Sub, and the consider when they came into being. There simply aren't that many alternatives, even now, yet there are a few.

Submariner Date or No Date -- Alternatives much have the following traits:
  • In-house movement with a proven track record for durability and reliability
  • 38 to 42 mm diameter
  • Bracelet version if the alternative comes in both strap and bracelet variants
  • Same dial general color as one offered by Rolex ideally, but if not, fine
  • Must be a dive watch
  • Price Range: $7500 to $9000 (give or take about $500)
  • Uncomplicated watch, but dates are acceptable
  • Chronometer or a non-debatable track record of producing at least chronometer-level performance
  • New watch sold by an AD or grey market (not eBay) seller and accompanied by either the manufacturer's or seller's warranty (not pre-owned)
  • Not a limited edition watch
If I'm thinking of a one to one comparison, the JLC Navy Seals, Vulcain, Omega Seamaster (which isn't a pure manufacture watch, but is more than competent enough to be a competing item), Breitling, Ulysse Nardin and Clerc are all that come to mind.


The thing is that when one considers them, even ignoring a need to be price equivalent, what one finds is:

  • UN - in-house requires a chronograph watch (UN-118), so not a direct comparison to a Sub.
  • Breitling - Super Ocean watch is ETA inside; their B01 movement -- a chrono -- is a fitting competitor to the Daytona, but not a Sub.
  • JLC - meets the requirements and sturdy enough but not their best work, even if it's a solid desk diver and good looking enough.
  • Vulcain - meets the criteria. It's a quality piece.
  • Omega - a genuine item that is a very fair competitor to the Sub. Should be okay on reliability if one gets the 8500 co-ax movement, but the 2500 co-axial is the horological analogue to the N54 engine in the E9x cars we love, and Omega did exactly what BMW did: issue an updated variant ASAP.
  • Clerc - a very worthy competitor, able to hold its own with the Sub and the SD. They are a boutique brand that's been around since the 1870s, but were largely unknown until 1997 when the current generation of the family took a more active interest in upping the brand's recognition and profits, no doubt. All the same, they have achieved some horological innovations that are noteworthy. The look is very different from that of the Sub, but suum cuique, the point is to find a comparable product, not one that looks just like a Sub.
Now while I have no reservation about the Clerc; it's a casual/sport watch just as any dive watch is. But I know many folks will wear Subs with suits, and some will even try to pull off a James Bond and wear it with a tux. Regardless of what I think about that, I can see damn well that the Clerc is less able to do double duty. The JLC isn't quite as sartorially versatile as the Sub, and with its extra crown, neither is the Seamaster Planet Ocean.

So, yes, tons of folks will rag on the Rolex Sub for any number of reasons, I have yet to see on credible, objective argument against it, aside from individuals' simply preferring something else due to the common price variance. I'd venture to say the same of Rolex's Datejust models as well insofar as for a semi-dress styled daily wearer, it's hard to beat.

No, Rolex don't have the absolute best movements in the world; other folks offer ones that are far more refined. Rolex having the most reliable movements in the word; plenty of ETA and other folks movements are just as long lasting and tolerant of abuse. What Rolex does have, however, is the best compromise of features -- looks, reliability, proven and deserved reputation, and price (if one considers that one Rolex Sub can give one the wearability of one true dive watch and one semi-dress watch) -- when compared against a great many directly competitive products.

All the best.








Fantastic write-up and comparison! Plus adding some other brands that most people don't think of.

Clerc is a very cool watch, but as you said, probably not able to pull-off dual-duty between casual and formal.

I do like Omega quite a bit. They have great styles and a very good movement.

The B01 is Breitlings first in-house movement (BR01) in 2009. Personally, I only like the B01. Other Breitlings just don't do it for me.

For most watch wearers, it's about asthetics and reliability. So far for me, Rolex offers everything I'm looking for, especially the Daytona. The alloy used in the Rolex spring actually helps to counter-act gravity and is not affected by magnetism.
I was invited to a Rolex party at my local AD and the regional rep was there. I was the only person present that actually wore my Daytona when I raced and was into racing. We had some very good conversations about racing and all the racers who love them (and whom he was able to meet and interact with).
__________________
2017 Porsche C2 - manual of course
2015 GTI S
2008 BMW Z4 3.0si Coupe - because racecar
Appreciate 0
      11-29-2013, 03:55 PM   #170
tony20009
Major General
tony20009's Avatar
United_States
827
Rep
5,667
Posts

Drives: BMW 335i - Coupe
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Washington, DC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TSM330i View Post
Fantastic write-up and comparison! Plus adding some other brands that most people don't think of.

Clerc is a very cool watch, but as you said, probably not able to pull-off dual-duty between casual and formal.

I do like Omega quite a bit. They have great styles and a very good movement.

The B01 is Breitlings first in-house movement (BR01) in 2009. Personally, I only like the B01. Other Breitlings just don't do it for me.

For most watch wearers, it's about asthetics and reliability. So far for me, Rolex offers everything I'm looking for, especially the Daytona. The alloy used in the Rolex spring actually helps to counter-act gravity and is not affected by magnetism.
I was invited to a Rolex party at my local AD and the regional rep was there. I was the only person present that actually wore my Daytona when I raced and was into racing. We had some very good conversations about racing and all the racers who love them (and whom he was able to meet and interact with).
TY. I appreciate your having taken the time to read it. I forgot to specifically discuss the Vulcain watch, but the short is is that it suffers from the same aesthetic drawbacks as the Clerc: not able to do double duty.

In truth, if I were buying a purpose-only dive watch, because I had a genuine need for such a thing, I might choose either over a Rolex Sub, or a far less expensive watch that is made expressly for divers, maybe UTS or something. Thankfully, true divers don't actually have to spend $7K to get a a very, very capable dive watch. That's probably just as well since most divers aren't likely keen to spend that much for a watch when they have plenty of dive gear they need to spend it on. LOL

The reality for me, one who will never dive below 100 feet - and most likely not below 50 feet -- and I suspect for many others, is that a Sub tends to be a watch folks buy long before they find out there is actually a watch or two that can hold it's own against the Sub as a sport watch for diving. Then, years later when they find out about Clerc, Vulcain and even a few more boutique brands that I can't think of surely offer something comparable. But then that's the problem isn't it? Who the hell can think of them and why try so damn hard to do so when the Sub is such a damn good choice to begin with?

Omega:
Yes, Omega's 8500 co-axial movement is sometimes touted as being in the league of movements of the JLC, VC and PP ilk. Just stay away from the 2500 co-ax and it's chrono sibling. There's no shortage of folks, and even in the horological press, moaning about how the things are literally "up and dying" on them. It's no secret that the 2500 was a bit rushed to market; the issues being reported are likely the consequence of that haste. Folks don't seem to be having the same issues with the 8500, so it seems the sins of the 2500 are forgiven, even if there are still plenty of them on the market.

The benefits that accrue from the design of the co-axial escapement are obvious, even if they come at the expense of thinness. We're in a "big watch" era where watches apparently have to match the corpulence of their owners. That is what it is. Eventually folks will get back to normal size and so will watches. By then something else will have come along.

Aesthetics and reliability:
I have to say first that if one is really seeking a dive watch, this is one indispensable site: http://oceanictime.blogspot.com/

Hell, those are the two primary factors for me. I will say that if manufacture movements aren't critical, the Tudor Pelagos is a damn fine watch, and arguably a better machine, but it'll have ETA inside. Since Rolex own Tudor, there's a lot of overlap in the execution process. Indeed, vintage Tudoer (1990 or older) the case and bracelet are Rolex cases and bracelets. The fact that back then a Tudor was literally a Rolex with an ETA movement inside had a lot to do with why Tudor didn't really come into it's own: it was seen as the poor man's Rolex, even if the price wasn't anywhere near something a poor man could afford. Rolex finally has figured out that while others can clone their products and do so profitably for thousands less, Rolex can't clone itself for the price of a Seamaster and think people will buy it. Tudor is now coming into its own.

Vintage Tudor


Tudor Pelagos - You can see Tudor really put a lot of thought into this watch. For example they deliberately don't use a pearl in the little triangle on the bezel. Why? Because the damn things fall out. I know for a fact that's exactly what happens too. They use matte surfaces to keep reflectivity down and legibility high. No, it doesn't have the cyclops, but then neither does a Sea-Dweller.


Marcello C makes a very nice Rolex homage for about $1000 to $1500. Debaufre used to but they appear to have gone belly up. Still if one can find a "new, old stock" Debaufre, it's a great low price ($700 or less) alternative. Steinhart's Ocean is another maker who puts out a quality product with the right look with an ETA 2824-2 inside. Nivrel is yet another good alternative carrying ETA inside. Ditto Davosa. For folks who want the Sub look without the price and who don't care about much beyond the look and that the thing will run reliably, any one of these watches is more than fine.

And, of course, there is always the option of buying a pre-owned Sub. Since the movement hasn't changed one bit since about 1990 for the no-date and 1988 for the date version. The basic style has been constant for even longer.

All the best.





Attached Images
 
__________________
Cheers,
Tony

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
'07, e92 335i, Sparkling Graphite, Coral Leather, Aluminum, 6-speed

Last edited by tony20009; 11-29-2013 at 04:42 PM..
Appreciate 0
      12-03-2013, 10:44 AM   #171
bjbstewart
Private
bjbstewart's Avatar
United_States
6
Rep
370
Posts

Drives: 2007 BMW Z4MC
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: San Jose, CA

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
I came across this site - looks like you can rent watches!

http://techcrunch.com/2013/12/02/ele...ur-wrist-wear/
__________________
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Appreciate 0
      12-04-2013, 12:58 PM   #172
filip75
Facetious
filip75's Avatar
United_States
79
Rep
530
Posts

Drives: '15 AW M4
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: San Antonio, TX

iTrader: (0)

My favorite are the AP, UN and Blancpain
__________________
Current: '15 BMW M4 (6MT), '08 HD Dyna Street Bob
Previous: '06 BMW 330Ci; '06 Mercedes CLK-350; '04 Acura TL A-Spec; '95 BMW 318ti; '92 Mercury Cougar; '94 Honda Accord
Appreciate 0
      12-04-2013, 05:37 PM   #173
Mr. Liu
Lieutenant
Mr. Liu's Avatar
United_States
95
Rep
565
Posts

Drives: '11 M3 '14 E63 '05 E55K
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Southern California

iTrader: (1)

A. Lange and Sonne + Panerai
__________________
Turner - Megan - Rogue Engineering - RDSport - AFe - Akra
Appreciate 0
      12-05-2013, 12:02 PM   #174
Litos
Banned
United_States
126
Rep
2,993
Posts

Drives: 2012 Challenger RT Junk
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Houston/Pearland

iTrader: (1)

i'm far from a watch aficionado, but i can't help but to buy Invictas...

their bulky designs and details in the cases make me feel a kind of way....

these 3 watches are the only watches i have purchased since 1998....

again, i'm no watch expert but i really enjoy the Invicta line...

in order of appearence: Bolt, Venom, Bolt Zeus










Appreciate 0
      12-06-2013, 07:13 PM   #175
TSM330i
2006 330i, TSM, Black, manual, sport
TSM330i's Avatar
United_States
733
Rep
3,733
Posts

Drives: '17 C2, GTI, Z4 3.0si Racecar
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Chester Springs, PA

iTrader: (2)

On a daily basis, I get an email from watchtime.com. Today was a really interesting article about chronograph movements and the writers top ten.
This is the article:
http://www.watchtime.com/blog/fratel...dc4e8-14228137

Fratello Friday: Watch Nerd Alert! Top 10 Chronograph Movements, Part 1
December 6, 2013 By Robert-Jan Broer

A while back, I wrote an article on my top 5 iconic chronograph watches. Some of you readers wondered why Zenith wasn’t in there. Quite simply, it didn’t make my personal Top 5. However, I do love the Zenith El Primero movement, and think that its reputation as a great chronograph caliber is well-earned. So, to make it up for some of you fellow watch nerds out there, this week’s Fratello Friday (and next week’s) focuses specifically on chronograph movements rather than watches. Here is part one of my personal top 10.

One of my watch-loving friends – who, sadly, passed away a couple of years ago – had a special appreciation for chronographs and even ended all his e-mails with, “Chronographs, like most finer things in life, only improve with time.” If you want to know more about chronograph movements, and certain specific calibers, from a collector’s point of view, I recommend you read the interview I did with him a couple of years ago (click here). Although it does not include the latest chronograph movements, it is still a useful article covering many important aspects of chronographs.

Another great read that I can recommend if you want to learn more about chronograph movements is the book Chronograph Wristwatches – To Top Time, written by Gerd-Rüdiger Lang (founder and former CEO of Chronoswiss) and Reinhard Meis. The book dates from 1993 and offers good – albeit very technical – descriptions of the various chronograph movements out there.

My personal Top 10 contains in-house manufactured movements as well as mass-produced movements from manufacturers such as Lemania. You will also note that I’ve included types with both column-wheel and lever mechanisms. Other considerations include aesthetics and other attributes, all based on my experience in watch collecting over the last 15 years.

1. Zenith El Primero
The El Primero was introduced in 1969 and the first two versions were Caliber 3019PHC (with chronograph and date) and Caliber 3019PHF (with triple date, moon-phase, and chronograph). This first automatic chronograph movement ever is a ‘fast ticker,’ with a frequency of 36,000 vibrations per hour (vph). Most chronographs at the time of its introduction were ticking at 18,000 vph or 21,600 vph. The 36,000 vph makes it possible to time intervals to 1/10th of a second. The El Primero movement as we know it today is an evolution of the very first Caliber 3019 movements. Over time, we’ve seen several brands other than Zenith using El Primero chronograph movements, including Movado, TAG Heuer, Ebel, and even some Rolex Daytonas (though Rolex made some adjustments to it). If you are really into chronographs, you need at least one watch with this movement inside it.

2. Lemania 5100
You don’t have to be a movement expert to see that this one is a rather ugly specimen. It has no column-wheel mechanism and it even has some plastic parts inside. The reason that I put this particular movement at number 2 is that it is a no-nonsense workhorse, with central second and minute chronograph hands (for easier reading), a 24-hour hand, and a day-date feature. This movement was discontinued a few years ago, which apparently brought a few chronograph collectors nearly to tears. Tutima is one of the brands that has used it for a very long time, even after the discontinuation of its production. Other brands that have used the Lemania 5100 include Omega (which calls it Caliber 1045), Sinn, Fortis, Porsche Design, and Alain Silberstein. Lemania also created its own chronograph watches in the past that contained this movement. Word is that Fortis, Sinn and Tutima used this particular movement because it was the only one at the time meeting military requirements for chronograph watches. (Photo from Watchconcept.com).

3. Lemania 2310
Another Lemania, but very different than the 5100. This Lemania 2310 is perhaps better known under Omega’s “Caliber 321″ label, which was used in the very first Omega Speedmaster watches (click here). However, Omega wasn’t the only brand to use this Lemania column-wheel chronograph caliber. Even Patek Philippe used it for some of its chronograph watches, renaming it Caliber CH27-70. Of course, the Patek Philippe CH27-70 looked very different from the Omega Caliber 321 in terms of its finish, but both are based on that very same Lemania movement. Speedmaster fans crave the original Caliber 321, which Omega replaced in 1968 with Caliber 861 (also based on a Lemania movement), which had a lever mechanism instead of a column wheel. (Photo courtesy of SteveG)

4. Rolex 4130
Before 2000, Rolex used hand-wound Valjoux Caliber 72 chronograph movements, and modified Zenith El Primero movements, for its Cosmograph Daytona watches. In 2000, Rolex introduced the successor to its Caliber 4030 movement (based on the El Primero), Rolex Caliber 4130. Fully developed and manufactured in-house, this automatic chronograph chronometer movement is solid as a rock and cleverly engineered. Rolex was able to reduce the number of components with a new, patented solution for the chronograph mechanism. The extra space has been used to house a larger mainspring, which increased the power-reserve capacity from 50 to 72 hours. A watchmaker from a local Rolex service center has also told me that the Daytona is quite easy for them to service thanks to this movement’s construction.

5. A. Lange & Söhne L951.6
Let’s go a bit high-end here, to end Part 1 of this list. The hand-wound Caliber L951.6 by A. Lange & Söhne powers the brand’s Datograph Auf/Ab timepiece and, as you can see from the photo, has an incredibly high level of finishing and craftsmanship. The balance bridge has that traditional Glashütte finish (hand-engraving) and all the movement parts are meticulously finished as well. All the parts — even the balance spring — are manufactured in-house. This particular movement consists of 451 parts, which means assembly is surely a painstaking job for Lange’s watchmakers in Germany. Although I have much respect and admiration for all Lange movements, the one in the Datograph Auf/Ab (Up/Down) movement is definitely one of my favorites.

Next week: I reveal numbers 6 through 10 of my personal favorite chronograph movements.
__________________
2017 Porsche C2 - manual of course
2015 GTI S
2008 BMW Z4 3.0si Coupe - because racecar
Appreciate 0
      12-16-2013, 12:08 PM   #176
tony20009
Major General
tony20009's Avatar
United_States
827
Rep
5,667
Posts

Drives: BMW 335i - Coupe
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Washington, DC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Litos View Post
i'm far from a watch aficionado, but i can't help but to buy Invictas...

their bulky designs and details in the cases make me feel a kind of way....

these 3 watches are the only watches i have purchased since 1998....

again, i'm no watch expert but i really enjoy the Invicta line...

in order of appearence: Bolt, Venom, Bolt Zeus






Invicta make some fairly unique designs and they certainly have the "bling factor" well covered. I've seen the Zeus in a tri-color variant. It was a design disaster: too many colors on a watch that already has a log going on. The pink color you bought is far better.


My personal taste for "bling" is a bit more subtle and smaller. I think once the holiday and my son's college choice becomes more clear, I'm going to bite the bullet and buy this one. It's pretty unique among watches of its ilk in that all the "good stuff" is on the front of the watch. VC make a watch that is in the same vein, but the pictures are on the rear of the watch, so you have to take it off to enjoy the functionality. I've loved the Caligula's elegant main design, its outrageousness and its subtlety for some time now and having no novelty watches at all, it's the one I want even though it's not in-house. (NSFW - http://www.watchonista.com/2914/watc...%80%99s-behind)

All the best.
__________________
Cheers,
Tony

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
'07, e92 335i, Sparkling Graphite, Coral Leather, Aluminum, 6-speed
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:31 AM.




xbimmers
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST