Adjusting to driving the F85

[ekological]

I took delivery of a '16 F85 over a month ago and am still getting used to it. Current stablemates are all naturally aspirated, manual transmission cars: '99m3, '02m5, '09 Elise, '11m3. This is the first automatic and forced induced car for me.

I find with the F85 when you're rolling up to a red light, the transmission downshifts (or maybe even shifts to neutral) right when you're about to come to a stop where you're feathering the brake pedal which then causes a lurch. It doesn't always happen and maybe doesn't happen if you manage to get stopped before the electronics decide to downshift.

I don't like how the transmission can't wait to get to 8th gear. Yes, I want to be rolling along in 8th gear at 30mph. Ugh. I changed the drive logic to (2), but then upshifting while gradually accelerating is clunky. WTF?

The other day I was driving along and was anticipating to rocket off, so I used the paddles to downshift four or five gears to get the engine to above 3000 rpms and was just maintaining speed. When I punched it...I definitely felt lag...very little power and you can sense the turbos spooling, then crazy power. Normal? I thought everyone raved how these modern turbo'ed engines are so great that you can't even tell there's any forced induction.

=/

[KCTiger]

I’ve noticed much of what you describe. When I am driving in areas with speed limits of 25 or 30, I usually keep it in drive logic 1 to eliminate the jerkiness. I only notice it at low speeds.

Re: the last comment, I can’t say I’ve noticed turbo lag at 3000 rpm. I thought the turbos spooled up at lower rpm. Additionally, I thought launch control starts you at 3000. I am one of the less educated folks on these boards so I will be curious to read what the more educated folks have to say.

[ekological]

Originally Posted by KCTiger

Re: the last comment, I can’t say I’ve noticed turbo lag at 3000 rpm. I thought the turbos spooled up at lower rpm. Additionally, I thought launch control starts you at 3000. I am one of the less educated folks on these boards so I will be curious to read what the more educated folks have to say.

I think there's a difference between giving enough gas to maintain engine speed vs more gas to accelerate. I'm not sure if this is intrinsic to a turbo or more to do with the electronics that control boost pressure. Certainly, maintaining a steady 3k rpms and then accelerating vs stomping on it from idle will yield a quicker time to get on boost. When doing launch control (I've not tried it yet), you're on the brakes and the engine is loaded. I would imagine the electronics are also programmed to recognize this situation as well.

I guess I'm just surprised that it's way easier to drive smoothly and have fun doing it in a manual transmission/naturally aspirated car. My BMW master tech friend asked me, "so? How do you like it?," after I got it and my response was, "eh...it's stupid fast, but it's not as engaging as my other cars." He said all newer BMWs are like that. I'm not sure where the disconnect is with me. Is it 20 years of driving a stick that my brain is wired to know that if I'm cruising on the highway and want to overtake or be stupid that I clutch in, blip the throttle, shift into third or fourth, and then take off? Is it the fact that the H pattern tells me everything I need to know? Would I feel differently if it were a real sequential shifter? Or maybe it's 8 speed vs 6 speed. Cruising in the F85 and it's in D8 and then you have to do *click* *click* *click* *click*...ok...I'm ready to have fun.

I know a few friends who went from manual to DCT and were like, "OMG! It's the best thing ever!" I've always been of the "Oh hell no!" attitude and now I'm seriously doubting I will enjoy the F8 I have coming next year and maybe should shop for a manual F430.

[BeeMdblU]

Originally Posted by ekological

I think there's a difference between giving enough gas to maintain engine speed vs more gas to accelerate. I'm not sure if this is intrinsic to a turbo or more to do with the electronics that control boost pressure. Certainly, maintaining a steady 3k rpms and then accelerating vs stomping on it from idle will yield a quicker time to get on boost. When doing launch control (I've not tried it yet), you're on the brakes and the engine is loaded. I would imagine the electronics are also programmed to recognize this situation as well.

I guess I'm just surprised that it's way easier to drive smoothly and have fun doing it in a manual transmission/naturally aspirated car. My BMW master tech friend asked me, "so? How do you like it?," after I got it and my response was, "eh...it's stupid fast, but it's not as engaging as my other cars." He said all newer BMWs are like that. I'm not sure where the disconnect is with me. Is it 20 years of driving a stick that my brain is wired to know that if I'm cruising on the highway and want to overtake or be stupid that I clutch in, blip the throttle, shift into third or fourth, and then take off? Is it the fact that the H pattern tells me everything I need to know? Would I feel differently if it were a real sequential shifter? Or maybe it's 8 speed vs 6 speed. Cruising in the F85 and it's in D8 and then you have to do *click* *click* *click* *click*...ok...I'm ready to have fun.

I know a few friends who went from manual to DCT and were like, "OMG! It's the best thing ever!" I've always been of the "Oh hell no!" attitude and now I'm seriously doubting I will enjoy the F8 I have coming next year and maybe should shop for a manual F430.

program your m buttons for when you need a quick switch in drive

[BadCompany]

Originally Posted by ekological

Cruising in the F85 and it's in D8 and then you have to do *click* *click* *click* *click*...ok...I'm ready to have fun.

I just bought my X6 M a few weeks ago and am still waiting for the dealer to repair some issues I asked to be remedied, so I haven't had basically any seat time. That being said, it's interesting that there isn't a built in way to grab the lowest possible gear. In my C63, if I hold the downshift paddle, it kicks down to the lowest possible gear. I don't remember if my wife's ISF has a similar function. Regardless, I think you have to try and approach it as a different animal then your manual cars. If I'm looking to be in control of everything, I take my turbo Elise... I just know that my shifts will never be as fast as my other cars.

Each car has its own personality and I enjoy them for different reasons. I've found some cars I just don't connect with though. In that case, I don't have them long...

[HotTub TimeMachine]

Originally Posted by ekological

I took delivery of a '16 F85 over a month ago and am still getting used to it. Current stablemates are all naturally aspirated, manual transmission cars: '99m3, '02m5, '09 Elise, '11m3. This is the first automatic and forced induced car for me.

I find with the F85 when you're rolling up to a red light, the transmission downshifts (or maybe even shifts to neutral) right when you're about to come to a stop where you're feathering the brake pedal which then causes a lurch. It doesn't always happen and maybe doesn't happen if you manage to get stopped before the electronics decide to downshift.

I don't like how the transmission can't wait to get to 8th gear. Yes, I want to be rolling along in 8th gear at 30mph. Ugh. I changed the drive logic to (2), but then upshifting while gradually accelerating is clunky. WTF?

The other day I was driving along and was anticipating to rocket off, so I used the paddles to downshift four or five gears to get the engine to above 3000 rpms and was just maintaining speed. When I punched it...I definitely felt lag...very little power and you can sense the turbos spooling, then crazy power. Normal? I thought everyone raved how these modern turbo'ed engines are so great that you can't even tell there's any forced induction.

=/

Try These, if you are used to manual cars then try to use manual mode as much as possible. In my car auto shifting is used for bumper to bumper traffic, when my wife drives or her homo (not that there is anything wrong with that) brother drives the car. Everything else is manual mode.

When approaching a red light I will downshift with paddles only to 2nd and let the car go into neutral by itself (1st can be a little rough and was similar on other BMW's N54, N55 etc with ZF's). This should be a smooth stop with no jerking every time.

When taking off from a side street and needing lots of steering lock (shifters are upside down) I will upshift into 2nd with the shifter, everything else is paddles. Why does the shifter feel like a plastic toy from a 2010 playstation controller?

When downshifting for a "rocket off" try to keep the engine under load/part throttle as you are shifting down, if you are used to lifting off (zero throttle) on the manual cars the DME is going to dump boost through the diverter valves and deliver you the turbo lag you mention. You have three throttle settings so the amount of throttle you need will vary.

Once you get the feel for the right throttle position while downshifting you should be able to drop gears and have the engine ready as soon as you land in the desired gear to rip towards the limiter. Using the same technique may lead to an atmospheric lag/delay problem surfacing in the M3 etc.. when comparing back to the X6M.

If you want to downshift and hold 3,000rpm, say in 3rd gear for a few seconds, then accelerate, you can brake boost while at this rpm. Then let go of the brake and accelerate at the same time and there should be no delay. Perfect technique on the highway if something worthy pulls up alongside.

Upshifting should now be always flat (no lift) especially when passing any GLE63's with a window down and time the shift where your exhaust is closest to the merc window. Catless will only enhance this experience.

Hopefully these help.

[pachieh]

I am going to echo some of what's been said. Drive in manual if auto isn't to your liking. The only time I'm in auto is when I'm launching for a run because I can't hit the shirt point perfectly and D3 is the best for that. Of which, make sure your auto is in D3 if you don't want to be in 8th gear at 25 mph. D1 sucks.

And yes, turbos start at about 3k. I've noticed they start really kicking in around 3500 in 3rd gear pulls and up with 4th/5th pulling the hardest.

And if you want more, get an ECU tune!

[Skyracer]

Welcome to the future, at least before electric cars take over. Turbocharging, heavy curb weights, SUVs and slushboxes are here to stay. Hold on to your NA, manual cars... you can barely find any to buy any today, let alone in the future.

It's interesting to note your comment about feeling you can drive a manual more smoothly. This may well be true. However, you may wish to ask your passengers for their opinions. I pride myself on my manual driving skills, but I can tell you from my experiences that most passengers prefer riding in an automatic (particularly those not interested in cars). I'm probably not as good with a manual as I think. But I have been driving automatics as well for decades, and I think like any endeavour involving co-ordination and muscle memory, there is a learning curve. And intuitively, a well-driven automatic will be smoother than an equally well-driven manual, given the inevitable reduction in shift times and resultant, smoother passenger g loads, especially at part throttle.

You will adapt over time to the idiosyncrasies of turbo engines and torque converters - if you think the X5M has lag, it's a good thing you didn't drive a turbo car 20 or 30 years ago LOL! You'll quickly learn to anticipate when to get on the throttle (earlier) in order to ensure the right amount of boost is there when you want it. You will also quickly learn how to feather the brake pedal to minimize that irritating lurch at the lights, (although it won't ever go away completely). Lastly, you'll realize that drive is for when you want to waft and relax, and paddles are for when you want control over gears and engine speeds... just don't expect languid, smooth shifts when using the paddles, 'cause it won't happen.

[Crisp]

So does anyone know why we got stuck with this programming for the transmission? What's the point of having an automatic tranny that goes into neutral on stops, doesn't have a "Park" button, rolls backwards/forwards, no crawl feature, etc.

I feel like we got all the negatives of a sequential auto-manual transmission (rolling, no crawl, weird starts, etc.) with none of the positives of a DCT. Parallel parking this car in semi-tight spaces is also ridiculous when the car doesn't crawl upon releasing the brake. You have to do the brake/gas dance where you have to quickly tap the gas to get it moving, then slam on the brakes right away because it's too much acceleration for the application. I get that the torque figures may have been much for the F85, versus the F10 M5, but I wish it was just a normal 8spd ZF without this stupid programming trying to make it look like a DCT.

It's ridiculous when I have a client in the car and I'm trying to come to a smooth stop (non existent) or take off smoothly from a light. This is especially annoying when coming from a true manual transmission where coming to a stop could not even be felt.

[KCTiger]

It definitely has its quirks. My biggest beef is consistent w/ Crisp's. If the vehicle has an auto, I want it to act like an auto. If it has a DCT, I want it to act like a DCT. It actually doesn't bother me too much but I also don't have to parallel park very often.

[C320]

Originally Posted by KCTiger

It definitely has its quirks. My biggest beef is consistent w/ Crisp's. If the vehicle has an auto, I want it to act like an auto. If it has a DCT, I want it to act like a DCT. It actually doesn't bother me too much but I also don't have to parallel park very often.

Absolutely! The lack of a 'P' position is weird, it's taken me a while to get used to switching the car off in D or R!

I've managed to adjust my driving style to eliminate much of the jerkiness. In terms of behaving like an auto, you know that you can get the car to 'creep / crawl' by blipping the throttle. It can help when parking, although 100% not quite like a normal auto.

Whenever I take out my wife's F30 or my Dad's F15 I do find I try to do odd things like pushing the gear shifter to the top left to find reverse like it is on ours!