Audio systems

[Alos]

Have any of you had any issues with the electrical system after doing an after market sub/amp plus wiring the oem subwoofers to an amp basically 3 channels or in general power issues ? Since our alternator is 215amp

[TMR]

Originally Posted by Alos

Have any of you had any issues with the electrical system after doing an after market sub/amp plus wiring the oem subwoofers to an amp basically 3 channels or in general power issues ? Since our alternator is 215amp

In my F85 there is 2 batteries. More than enough power to tune 3-5 large amps. A friend did a system in a F15 and 5 amps with out any issues.

[bmwx1sq]

Originally Posted by Alos

Have any of you had any issues with the electrical system after doing an after market sub/amp plus wiring the oem subwoofers to an amp basically 3 channels or in general power issues ? Since our alternator is 215amp

Mine also as two battery I added a 15 farad cap for stabilization, and haven't had any issues. I m pushing way more then most of you guys want to. My sub amp dyno'd 2300. So it's safe to say you should be fine with a 500-750 watt amp.

[DuSh]

Ok, so I got LC2i, sub/amp and T-harness all wired up at home and ready to connect to battery and everything - probably tomorrow. I tried today to look at the stock amplifier and I can't even take a look as it's halfway hidden behind a panel that I don't know how to remove. The first panel is removable easily, but any way to remove second one? I just want to be able to plug T-harness and it's hard to do with that panel in the way.

It's not my picture - I'm just showing the panel that I need to remove

[DuSh]

Oh, never-mind, found it: https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...nel/1VnXe5C4Hm

[bmwx1sq]

Originally Posted by DuSh

Ok, so I got LC2i, sub/amp and T-harness all wired up at home and ready to connect to battery and everything - probably tomorrow. I tried today to look at the stock amplifier and I can't even take a look as it's halfway hidden behind a panel that I don't know how to remove. The first panel is removable easily, but any way to remove second one? I just want to be able to plug T-harness and it's hard to do with that panel in the way.

It's not my picture - I'm just showing the panel that I need to remove

FYI the front two clips are a pain. After unbolting the metal track on the floor you can undoing the bottom clips. You can now bend the panel out enough to unbolt the bracket to the amp and pull it out some. This will make it easier to unplug and work on.

[Jrunr]

Originally Posted by TMR

In my F85 there is 2 batteries. More than enough power to tune 3-5 large amps. A friend did a system in a F15 and 5 amps with out any issues.

Here is a pic of the G05 trunk/spare tire well. I don't know if there is as much "depth" to add a pre-boxed subwoofer... Thoughts?

[DuSh]

Originally Posted by Jrunr

Here is a pic of the G05 trunk/spare tire well. I don't know if there is as much "depth" to add a pre-boxed subwoofer... Thoughts?

It seems very similar to F15, same layout, probably similar dimensions of wheel well. So your main limitation will be 9'' height (or depth if you want to call it that way) of the wheel well. There are lots of 12'' subs (slim profile ones) that can fit in there.

[Alos]

Do any of you have recommendation on a amp wiring kit? Stinger vs ndx etc. 4 gauge ?

[bmwx1sq]

Originally Posted by Alos

Do any of you have recommendation on a amp wiring kit? Stinger vs ndx etc. 4 gauge ?

Doesn't matter, both are good brands.

[Alos]

Have any of you mounted it in the spar tire space and than closed the cover? Does it mufffle the sound ? Or just as good ? I was gonna do amp rack and 12 in jl micro box in the spar well ? But debating on putting in trunk also just don't want to loss trunk space? Any ideas or what have others done. I really don't want to cut any holes in the initial factory floor

[DuSh]

Originally Posted by Alos

Have any of you mounted it in the spar tire space and than closed the cover? Does it mufffle the sound ? Or just as good ? I was gonna do amp rack and 12 in jl micro box in the spar well ? But debating on putting in trunk also just don't want to loss trunk space? Any ideas or what have others done. I really don't want to cut any holes in the initial factory floor

I'm no expert, but I tried to put my 12 inch sub in the wheel well and partially closed by wheel well lid and I haven't noticed any muffled sound. I don't think lid is thick enough to make a audible difference or muffle low frequencies to the extent that we can notice it.

That been said if your woofer will be right against the lid - I'm not sure how that might affect sound. If you have at least 2 inches of space between woofer and lid - so that there is some space for air to move freely - I guess that would be better. The thing is wheel well is only about 9 inches deep and every inch matters. Yes, there are slim subs but IMHO a slim 6 inch deep sub probably won't be as good and will have compromises. This is why I just placed my sub against the 2nd row seat facing backward. That way it won't interfere with trunk space too much. Just my opinion.

[bmwx1sq]

Originally Posted by DuSh

I'm no expert, but I tried to put my 12 inch sub in the wheel well and partially closed by wheel well lid and I haven't noticed any muffled sound. I don't think lid is thick enough to make a audible difference or muffle low frequencies to the extent that we can notice it.

That been said if your woofer will be right against the lid - I'm not sure how that might affect sound. If you have at least 2 inches of space between woofer and lid - so that there is some space for air to move freely - I guess that would be better. The thing is wheel well is only about 9 inches deep and every inch matters. Yes, there are slim subs but IMHO a slim 6 inch deep sub probably won't be as good and will have compromises. This is why I just placed my sub against the 2nd row seat facing backward. That way it won't interfere with trunk space too much. Just my opinion.

Dash did you put the bass blockers in?

[Feelin Nauti]

Ok I think I need to chime in here a bit. I have been into car audio and competitions since the late 70's. I have always been in the sound quality competitions. I was an IASCA State Champion for many different years, Mid west USA points champion and place in the top 3 in World Sound Quality Competitions. So I do know a thing or six about setting up a quality sound system.
I am a little bit old school as it has served me well over the past 4 decades. While I don't spent the 15 to 20 grand on systems anymore I do still try to set them up properly and understand speaker designs and system integrations.

Lets start with basics of most speaker natural limitations and sound reproductions in terms of sound in Htz they will produce and the way most OEM systems are set up and I am suspecting that BMW is no different.

30 Htz to 80 Htz is considered Sub Bass
80 Htz to about 250 Htz is considered Mid Bass
250 Htz to about 4k Htz is Midrange or Fullrange
4k up to 20k is High freq or tweeters

Speaker sizes in general have a lot to do with the freq it will produce. There are speakers with specific designs but in general, is what we will be talking about.


A typical 4" speaker will have a natural rolloff below 400htz about 24db per octive.
A Typical 5" speaker will have a natural rolloff below 200Htz about 24db per octive.


In our systems they have 8" mid bass drivers under the seats and I suspect they have built in crossover points in the amps to play from about 80 htz to about 400Htz

We have 4" in the doors and tweeters that should get a factory crossover point about 400 Htz and up from the amp.The tweeter has hi pass filter on them (passive) that only allow about 4K Htz and above pass thru them. I suspect the natural roll of of the 4" is somewhere in this 4K freq range too. So in sorts its a band pass for the 4" between 400 Htz to about 4K Htz

The center Speaker is a 5" so it probably plays a bit lower but still only about 200Htz and up.


So adding bass blockers to your 4" is not necessary and cutting off the 100 Htz and 200 Htz on the EQ is not really Ideal. That will create sonic holes in the audio spectrum.

Adding a true sub woofer is the first step in filling in the entire human hearing audio spectrum. (30 Htz to 20K Htz) You would want that sub to pick up where our system fall apart, somewhere below 80Htz. I actually prefer to only play most subs to about 60Htz

Its better to let speakers play their natural audio spectrum and not force them to do something they should not do. I would not play a sub woofer up to 200 Htz as it will not sound natural at all. This is what the 8" mid bass drivers do under your seat. So leave them hooked up and let them do their job.

The best sounding system is a flat sound curve with little peaks and valleys in the spectrum. So Ideally you need to adjust the signal to flatten out the spectrum. We are limited to only 7 bands with the factory EQ. So adjusting it to be flat is a challenge as you cant quite get the spectrum flat. So you have compromises with the tools given.

I still use a quality source from a CD and pink noise with a true 30 band Sound spectrum analyzer to see where the frequency are at with our factory systems. I did the best to adjust the sound to be as natural as I could without it being forced.

I will usually adjust the sound at a moderate to loud level as that is how I like to listen to it. With the sub woofers turned off or all the way down. Make the system sound the best that it can with all the freq it will play without sounding muddy or forced. Then add the level of sub woofer to fill in the low freq we are missing.

The settings I found in my system to be as flat as possible with the limitations of factory speakers, processors and amp are as follows.

Set Treble and bass in the middle setting, (no cut or gain)
Turn Logic 7 surround OFF
In Volume settings.. turn speed volume all the way down.

EQ settings as pictured

I have the HK system for reference.



I added 2 12" JL subs in a sealed enclosure ( cGrill made but not installed yet) and a 600 watt JL amp with sub remote gain control and a line output converter with some eq setting for the sub since factory does not go below 100 Htz. I can add how much is needed for the source being played with the remote gain control But other than that the system for now is stock.

Source Quality has a lot to do with the sound. Digital music is compressed and the amount of compression limits the sound reproduced. If you download music on your phone be sure to go to settings on your device and always down load and play from the highest available setting you have.

As far as compression goes this sound from best to worse will be this:


CD is best quality
FM radio is next
Aux input from your phone (Tied)
Blue tooth from your phone (Tied) But Blue Tooth will usually sound louder but not more quality
XM/Sirius is last.

While I do love the convenience and commercial free radio the sound is just awful.

I'm not sure if this helped any of you or not but I read quite a few things that I felt needed some explanations for the novice to understand.

[bmwx1sq]

Originally Posted by Feelin Nauti

Ok I think I need to chime in here a bit. I have been into car audio and competitions since the late 70's. I have always been in the sound quality competitions. I was an IASCA State Champion for many different years, Mid west USA points champion and place in the top 3 in World Sound Quality Competitions. So I do know a thing or six about setting up a quality sound system.
I am a little bit old school as it has served me well over the past 4 decades. While I don't spent the 15 to 20 grand on systems anymore I do still try to set them up properly and understand speaker designs and system integrations.

Lets start with basics of most speaker natural limitations and sound reproductions in terms of sound in Htz they will produce and the way most OEM systems are set up and I am suspecting that BMW is no different.

30 Htz to 80 Htz is considered Sub Bass
80 Htz to about 250 Htz is considered Mid Bass
250 Htz to about 4k Htz is Midrange or Fullrange
4k up to 20k is High freq or tweeters

Speaker sizes in general have a lot to do with the freq it will produce. There are speakers with specific designs but in general, is what we will be talking about.


A typical 4" speaker will have a natural rolloff below 400htz about 24db per octive.
A Typical 5" speaker will have a natural rolloff below 200Htz about 24db per octive.


In our systems they have 8" mid bass drivers under the seats and I suspect they have built in crossover points in the amps to play from about 80 htz to about 400Htz

We have 4" in the doors and tweeters that should get a factory crossover point about 400 Htz and up from the amp.The tweeter has hi pass filter on them (passive) that only allow about 4K Htz and above pass thru them. I suspect the natural roll of of the 4" is somewhere in this 4K freq range too. So in sorts its a band pass for the 4" between 400 Htz to about 4K Htz

The center Speaker is a 5" so it probably plays a bit lower but still only about 200Htz and up.


So adding bass blockers to your 4" is not necessary and cutting off the 100 Htz and 200 Htz on the EQ is not really Ideal. That will create sonic holes in the audio spectrum.

Adding a true sub woofer is the first step in filling in the entire human hearing audio spectrum. (30 Htz to 20K Htz) You would want that sub to pick up where our system fall apart, somewhere below 80Htz. I actually prefer to only play most subs to about 60Htz

Its better to let speakers play their natural audio spectrum and not force them to do something they should not do. I would not play a sub woofer up to 200 Htz as it will not sound natural at all. This is what the 8" mid bass drivers do under your seat. So leave them hooked up and let them do their job.

The best sounding system is a flat sound curve with little peaks and valleys in the spectrum. So Ideally you need to adjust the signal to flatten out the spectrum. We are limited to only 7 bands with the factory EQ. So adjusting it to be flat is a challenge as you cant quite get the spectrum flat. So you have compromises with the tools given.

I still use a quality source from a CD and pink noise with a true 30 band Sound spectrum analyzer to see where the frequency are at with our factory systems. I did the best to adjust the sound to be as natural as I could without it being forced.

I will usually adjust the sound at a moderate to loud level as that is how I like to listen to it. With the sub woofers turned off or all the way down. Make the system sound the best that it can with all the freq it will play without sounding muddy or forced. Then add the level of sub woofer to fill in the low freq we are missing.

The settings I found in my system to be as flat as possible with the limitations of factory speakers, processors and amp are as follows.

Set Treble and bass in the middle setting, (no cut or gain)
Turn Logic 7 surround OFF
In Volume settings.. turn speed volume all the way down.

EQ settings as pictured

I have the HK system for reference.



I added 2 12" JL subs in a sealed enclosure ( cGrill made but not installed yet) and a 600 watt JL amp with sub remote gain control and a line output converter with some eq setting for the sub since factory does not go below 100 Htz. I can add how much is needed for the source being played with the remote gain control But other than that the system for now is stock.

Source Quality has a lot to do with the sound. Digital music is compressed and the amount of compression limits the sound reproduced. If you download music on your phone be sure to go to settings on your device and always down load and play from the highest available setting you have.

As far as compression goes this sound from best to worse will be this:


CD is best quality
FM radio is next
Aux input from your phone (Tied)
Blue tooth from your phone (Tied) But Blue Tooth will usually sound louder but not more quality
XM/Sirius is last.

While I do love the convenience and commercial free radio the sound is just awful.

I'm not sure if this helped any of you or not but I read quite a few things that I felt needed some explanations for the novice to understand.

I agree with everything you said but there isn't a crossover point set of the 4"s in the front doors. Yes they might have natural rollover, but they still try to play. The bass blockers are to simulate a crossover point for the 4" not to create a void in the spectrum.

[Feelin Nauti]

Originally Posted by bmwx1sq

I agree with everything you said but there isn't a crossover point set of the 4"s in the front doors. Yes they might have natural rollover, but they still try to play. The bass blockers are to simulate a crossover point for the 4" not to create a void in the spectrum.

I would be totally shocked if BMW German Engineers did not have set crossover points in the factory amp. Porsche, Mercedes, Volvo and even Ford and GMC do. They would be replacing factory 4" speakers left and right if they did not.

As you probably know speakers are most often damaged from distortion... not over powering them. Playing a 4" speaker down to 80 or even 100 htz would cause them to distort something awful and for sure be blown with prolonged listening at high distortion levels.

We don't hear of people with blown speakers all the time on modern day sound systems in vehicles. At the very least the factory has a two way active crossover point in the 400 htz range.

The midbass picks up below 400 htz and the other pick up above. From the factory active crossover point they are using passive inductors to make it a 3 way set up with the tweeters playing above 4K or so.

Back to point:


Cutting out the 100 and 200 htz signals with the EQ will create a HUGE void in the system.. but to each his own I guess.

[bmwx1sq]

Originally Posted by Feelin Nauti

I would be totally shocked if BMW German Engineers did not have set crossover points in the factory amp. Porsche, Mercedes, Volvo and even Ford and GMC do. They would be replacing factory 4" speakers left and right if they did not.

As you probably know speakers are most often damaged from distortion... not over powering them. Playing a 4" speaker down to 80 or even 100 htz would cause them to distort something awful and for sure be blown with prolonged listening at high distortion levels.

We don't hear of people with blown speakers all the time on modern day sound systems in vehicles. At the very least the factory has a two way active crossover point in the 400 htz range.

The midbass picks up below 400 htz and the other pick up above. From the factory active crossover point they are using passive inductors to make it a 3 way set up with the tweeters playing above 4K or so.

Back to point:


Cutting out the 100 and 200 htz signals with the EQ will create a HUGE void in the system.. but to each his own I guess.

Agreed but they do play lower then you think cause a "muddy" as they try to play too low. The mid basses play high enough to cover up to 200-250htz. The oem 4" can not play that. I mean and sound decent.

[Jrunr]

Has anyone upgraded the stock speakers? Even in other vehicles I have had in the past, a simple upgrade to the center speaker with an aftermarket coax speaker made a pretty decent difference. It raised the soundstage and made things a bit more clear... Just a thought.

[bmwx1sq]

Originally Posted by Jrunr

Has anyone upgraded the stock speakers? Even in other vehicles I have had in the past, a simple upgrade to the center speaker with an aftermarket coax speaker made a pretty decent difference. It raised the soundstage and made things a bit more clear... Just a thought.

Yes I have a 3 way front stage and sub.

[Alos]

This is what I am looking at

https://www.cartoys.com/jl-audio-cs1...RoCEM4QAvD_BwE

So should have enough clearance from lid. I just don't want to cut lid unless anyone knows where I can get a replacement lid and what it costs so if I need to change in future ?

[Alos]

So I am going with technic harness for logic 7 $140 one, comes with loc. Plus JL Audio xd700/5 and that sup from jl 12 micro. I didn't want to mess with electronic to much and change factory amp dsp etc. since I heard if bmw does a reset it will cause problems or reboot that is. So tapping into the system and the subs underneath the seat seemed like a good option ?? What do you all think ?

[bmwx1sq]

Originally Posted by Alos

So I am going with technic harness for logic 7 $140 one, comes with loc. Plus JL Audio xd700/5 and that sup from jl 12 micro. I didn't want to mess with electronic to much and change factory amp dsp etc. since I heard if bmw does a reset it will cause problems or reboot that is. So tapping into the system and the subs underneath the seat seemed like a good option ?? What do you all think ?

Good sub. As for the amp you want the 600/1, the one you have listed is a 5 channel amp. The harness will already have everything ready so you don't have to cut and tap into anything.