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      12-11-2021, 09:34 PM   #1
SpecBC
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My Stupid Purchase...

Hey Everyone! I am new to these forums(and somewhat new to BMW) but not new to forums in general. I joined as i just bought a 2017 xdrive50i that was a flood vehicle and I am attempting to get it running. I wanted to somewhat document this and know I will need help from this forum so I am starting this thread.

I bought the car from New Jersey, it appeared from photos to not have severe flooding and I have lucked out before buying a 2015 BRZ that was flooded and it has been a great car and only had flooding in the footwells.

The car was delivered on Friday, my initial observations are that the flooding does appear to have only been up to the footwells. The carpet pad is still wet and there is water underneath but that seems to be the extent of it.

My main concern is of course the engine and transmission health, otherwise those are very spendy and a decent amount of work. Again, nothing would make me think the front was submerged.

I changed the oil, did not appear to have water in it, so I was encouraged.

I tried to start it and it was only clicking, even when i hooked jumper cables up directly to the car.

I would get an odd message that said "the transmission will shift into park soon" even though it was already in park.

The clicking also sounded like either, a locked starter, or I guess it could still have a locked engine.

There is a check engine light on so my plan is to pull that code to hopefully get some ideas.

I wanted to try and turn the engine over by hand but it is impossible to do so without taking it apart quite a bit more it seems.

I'm open to any and all ideas but I will gather more info tomorrow.

Also, is this the best place to currently get the actual BMW service repair manuals?

https://www.bmwtis.com/

I look forward to getting this started and eventually getting it tuned.

Ben
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      12-12-2021, 01:12 AM   #2
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Brave soul you are for sure. Best of luck! Fingers crossed
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      12-12-2021, 03:23 AM   #3
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First, Vaya con dios.

Second, refer to first.

Check the voltage, fuses, relays, ect.
Bare in mind, that allot of the modules are at the footwell level.

Most importantly, get yourself a decent scan tool, Carly, BimmerLink, ISTA, ect. and see what error codes you get and go from there.

ISTA does have manuals and wiring diagrams.
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      12-12-2021, 09:15 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilled View Post
First, Vaya con dios.

Second, refer to first.

Check the voltage, fuses, relays, ect.
Bare in mind, that allot of the modules are at the footwell level.

Most importantly, get yourself a decent scan tool, Carly, BimmerLink, ISTA, ect. and see what error codes you get and go from there.

ISTA does have manuals and wiring diagrams.
Thank you, so would ISTA be the best bet or what would be most user friendly? I'm no stranger to wiring diagrams but would be good to have access to both if it comes from one company. I did just discover that my old OBDII scanner did not read any codes but the CEL is on so it must be the scan tool.

I think I am dealing with a few things, but of course I am not certain at the moment.

Here is what I am getting on the dash. I also got a message that the battery was discharging while the car was on, if it persists, to see BMW service(didn't get a pic of that but it was a newer message compared to I had seen before).

What is interesting is it makes it seem like I just need new batteries(I'm sure it isn't that simple). I tried to jump the car, and even with it hooked up to my running 2011 X5, it would not start, I just get a single starter click.

So my thoughts on possible issues at the moment are:
Need new battery
Seized starter
Emergency neutral switch was pulled and needs reset(may require dealer?)


The neutral lever has me puzzled as it has nothing attached to it and from what I thought I found, there is an emergency attachment that goes into the trunk that you can pull if needed but I do not have that. In the picture, it is pointing towards the rear of the car, I'm not certain if that means it was pulled or that is the normal position. When I did hook up power and released the parking brake electronically I did feel the car move forward slightly, so it adds some more questions as I thought it was also an emergency brake release.

Any ideas would be helpful, I'll order an OBDII reader, get some batteries and go from there.

Thanks!
Ben
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      12-12-2021, 11:05 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpecBC View Post
Thank you, so would ISTA be the best bet or what would be most user friendly? I'm no stranger to wiring diagrams but would be good to have access to both if it comes from one company. I did just discover that my old OBDII scanner did not read any codes but the CEL is on so it must be the scan tool.
Yep ISTA would be the best all round. Yes Link/Carly maybe quicker/ prettier but ISTA will give you all the errors. Nowadays, its a simple Next, Next, Finish install. You will need an Enet cable for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpecBC View Post
I think I am dealing with a few things, but of course I am not certain at the moment.
Yep.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpecBC View Post
What is interesting is it makes it seem like I just need new batteries(I'm sure it isn't that simple).
If its not even trying to crank with a decent jump pack, doubtful. So check all the fuses, relays, and make sure that all the water from the footwells and rear trunk area is all gone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpecBC View Post
The neutral lever has me puzzled as it has nothing attached to it and from what I thought I found, there is an emergency attachment that goes into the trunk that you can pull if needed but I do not have that. In the picture, it is pointing towards the rear of the car, I'm not certain if that means it was pulled or that is the normal position. When I did hook up power and released the parking brake electronically I did feel the car move forward slightly, so it adds some more questions as I thought it was also an emergency brake release.
That paw is park, its currently engaged. Post mid 2016, that pull cable was removed.

If needed, there should be a bolt that you can screw in that will disengage park.

To my knowledge this bolt does the same thing as pulling down on the lever. The only slight difference is that with bolt, one you screw it back out abit, it will stay in neutral.

Youtube for bolt, ISTA for paw.

Name:  pb.PNG
Views: 2315
Size:  141.1 KB


If you are sure there is no water in the engine (pull some plugs, stick a borescope), put the car in neutral and try to crank it by hand. See if it spins, or it seized. If you cant crank it, then ...


Just for lolz, here is a youtuber who recently gone through a flooded E71 X6M. He got it working, but his cranked.



*Edit* for x6, it starts out auto engaging park whilst moving. Fast fwd, all the issues in the car were caused by the seat control module. Yep

I didn't want to be a downer straight out of the gate, but this is not an 86. Allot more electronics in this.


Honestly, I would start with ISTA/ diagnostic and see if you can connect to all the modules and go from there.

Last edited by Chilled; 12-14-2021 at 07:47 AM..
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      12-14-2021, 10:51 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilled View Post
Yep ISTA would be the best all round. Yes Link/Carly maybe quicker/ prettier but ISTA will give you all the errors. Nowadays, its a simple Next, Next, Finish install. You will need an Enet cable for it.


Yep.


If its not even trying to crank with a decent jump pack, doubtful. So check all the fuses, relays, and make sure that all the water from the footwells and rear trunk area is all gone.


That paw is park, its currently engaged. Post mid 2016, that pull cable was removed.

If needed, there should be a bolt that you can screw in that will disengage park.

To my knowledge this bolt does the same thing as pulling down on the lever. The only slight difference is that with bolt, one you screw it back out abit, it will stay in neutral.

Youtube for bolt, ISTA for paw.

Attachment 2764148


If you are sure there is no water in the engine (pull some plugs, stick a borescope), put the car in neutral and try to crank it by hand. See if it spins, or it seized. If you cant crank it, then ...


Just for lolz, here is a youtuber who recently gone through a flooded E71 X6M. He got it working, but his cranked.



*Edit* for x6, it starts out auto engaging park whilst moving. Fast fwd, all the issues in the car were caused by the seat control module. Yep

I didn't want to be a downer straight out of the gate, but this is not an 86. Allot more electronics in this.


Honestly, I would start with ISTA/ diagnostic and see if you can connect to all the modules and go from there.
Thank you, it is not a downer, this is very helpful, I was hopeful it may be more simple since I think they generally don't try to start them at auction if flooded and this was offsite from Progressive so maybe was less seen by others but I recognized it may be difficult. I like learning haha.

Is the screen shot you shared form the ITSA manuals? That is exactly what I am looking for.

I ordered the ENET cable, should be here tomorrow, I will get the software and start getting familiar with it. This will be helpful for my next project also.

I also ordered a battery charger and new carpets. I started to disassemble the interior so I can fully dry it out but I want to get those manuals to figure it out so I break as little as possible.

I will have to watch that Samcrac video, I typically already watch him but had not watched those yet.

Thanks for the all the helpy and input/ideas so far!

Ben
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      12-14-2021, 03:30 PM   #7
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Not mechanically inclined myself; however I am definitely interested in following this post to see how things turn out. Good luck!!
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      12-15-2021, 01:49 AM   #8
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IMO, it’s worth disassembling to hand turn the motor over.

Cool project!
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      12-15-2021, 06:58 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpecBC View Post
Is the screen shot you shared form the ITSA manuals? That is exactly what I am looking for.

I ordered the ENET cable, should be here tomorrow, I will get the software and start getting familiar with it. This will be helpful for my next project also.
Ben
Yep, and you can also search offline in ISTA. As in you don't need to connect it to your car. Just launch it, punch in your vin or manually pick model and you can searching for service manuals, instructions ect. Just play around with the tabs to see what they show. The hardest part is filtering the search results and or keywords.
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      12-15-2021, 04:19 PM   #10
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I would say disconnect the batteries, take the interior apart to get all the flooded modules out. Disassemble the modules, clean circuit boards inside. Check for corroded wires, then connect everything together and go from there. Like someone mention most of the important modules are in foot wells or under the carpet so that’s where it’s good idea to start. Having batteries connected will damage more things if any water still present.
Nice project, post some pictures.
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      12-20-2021, 08:42 AM   #11
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This is perhaps one of the most ambitious and courageous projects. Wishing SpecBC desired outcomes within the budget. Looking forward to updates!
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      01-09-2022, 09:52 PM   #12
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Had a break due to work and christmas and new year's but I'm back at it!

I basically cut the carpet out of the footwells to try and get things dried out as fast as possible. I have a new set to replace it once I get the whole interior removed.

I reconnected the batteries and had charged them over the past couple weeks and they held voltage so that is a good sign.

I tried to start the car again with the batteries re-installed and it is still doing the same thing. However I got this message now which was new.

"starter/ignition malfunction, it is not possible to restart the car, please call roadside assistance"

I was just trying to learn how to navigate ISTA to find diagrams and I think I need to read some more tutorials as I am only finding some info but not what I was thinking(I'm sure it is mainly user error).

It's interesting the information system says that it is not possible to restart the car. I'm hopeful this means it is a knowable and more straightforward fix? I am curious if there is the safety cutoff switch for the starter/battery and if that went off, although this is typically an airbag related thing from my understanding(none deployed)?

Also, worth noting, I did have the passenger seat disconnected, so it did give a restraint system indicator on the dash. Not sure if that will matter?

Fuel pumps do prime when I unlock the car. I unhooked the negative terminals again before I left and recorded the voltage. When I go back I'll check again and hopefully if it is the same there is no drain happening now to cause a discharge.

I was only out there for a little bit and did not bring my laptop and cable to try and hook up at that point but definitely will bring it next time I am there to see what I can figure out.

any possible ideas on this error message would be great.

Thanks!
Ben
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      01-10-2022, 02:52 AM   #13
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As a flood car, again I would stay ease up on trying to start it. Make sure there is no water in the cylinders, and no signs on water in the lower oil pan/bottom of engine.

For the electrics, have you checked all the fuses/relays? When you connect your car to ISTA, what error codes do you get? You can also use bimmerlink/carly to get similar codes.

The error message (all 7 of them) in the iDrive are fairly useless for this level of diagnostic.


Here a quick vid of connecting you car to ista, @6:30 is when he does the live connection
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      01-10-2022, 10:52 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilled View Post
As a flood car, again I would stay ease up on trying to start it. Make sure there is no water in the cylinders, and no signs on water in the lower oil pan/bottom of engine.

For the electrics, have you checked all the fuses/relays? When you connect your car to ISTA, what error codes do you get? You can also use bimmerlink/carly to get similar codes.

The error message (all 7 of them) in the iDrive are fairly useless for this level of diagnostic.


Here a quick vid of connecting you car to ista, @6:30 is when he does the live connection
Thanks Chilled! helpful as usual.

I think I basically need help locating the "fuse box non-replaceable" It has all the relays and fuses I need to check, although based on the name I assume it can't be replaced?

I hooked up to ISTA and pulled the fault codes and looked at the tree, (1st pic with more yellow modules). I then plugged in the passenger side seat air bag module and got green on all modules except for some of the entertainment ones, nothing that seems to matter for starting...

I then tried to start it again. The reason I am mostly ok trying is based on all the physical evidence, the water was only pooled at most in the footwells. The moisture stopped barely higher than the floor mats and I highly doubt it would have dried out to that point and things like filters, etc, are totally dry and not stained. That doesn't mean it couldn't have happened but the air intakes, turbos, etc are high on the engine bay so I don't see how it would have been possible for water to get into the angine. however, the starter definitely sat in water submerged for however long.

After clearing everything and trying to start it again, I got the same ignition malfunction notice on the idrive system. I ran the scan again and pulled codes but again nothing seems to point to something starter or relay related, which is very confusing.

I still seem to have issue finding these diagrams and component locations with ISTA so if anyone can help point me towards those relays and fuse block that would be great. I was trying to get the BDC detached from the car so I could more easily inspect it but I was not sure how to remove it and didn't want to force anything.

Even the fault code descriptions have nothing to do with starting the engine, which seems odd to me? I think most were actually due to the fact that I unhooked the battery charger while trying to read the codes again I kept getting the warning that voltage was below 12.55v until I hooked it back up.

Can someone tell me what that last photo is, it has 3 power wires, the cap appears to come off but I didn't want to pry on it. It is possible these were low enough to get damp or wet at some point(or partly wet at the base).

Thanks for the help and ideas!
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      01-10-2022, 11:17 PM   #15
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Did a little more searching, Not sure if this is what I'm looking for but maybe? Looks like it may be under the cowl if this is it.
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      01-10-2022, 11:36 PM   #16
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I think I speak for everyone when I say we'd like to see some pics of this project X5!
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      01-11-2022, 12:24 AM   #17
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Reference Post #14.

Z17 with Fuse 90 (F90) is nothing more than a fuse box that supplies Terminal 30 voltage to the hydraulic pump in the DSC.

The BDC (A258) is the box right above Z17.
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      01-11-2022, 12:30 AM   #18
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Reference Post #15.

Z11 is the integrated supply module for your DME which houses a relay and a 15A fuse...the relay is turned on by a signal from the BDC (A258)...supplying a large amount of current to via Fuse F503 from your fuse box (Z3) to your DME (A46)....

Given that your DME is green in your control module tree, and no DME faults, I would say your Z11 module on the passenger side engine bay, under the trim piece, is not faulty.
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      01-11-2022, 12:40 AM   #19
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Before you tear the entire car apart, when you hit the start, does the starter motor tick, does it get any power?

If I am reading this correctly, the starter motor is getting the trigger signal from the BDC(A258) from pin 1, connector 2B. So when you hit start, is there power on that pin?
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      01-11-2022, 12:41 AM   #20
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Why do you think your Starter is OK?

There are several bread crumbs from post #1, up your last post, that indicate that the starter isn't OK.

If this were my "project", I'd start at the Starter.....but maybe it's only the voltage to the starter...can you measure 12VDC at the Starter on the large red wire?

But even if you get Terminal 50L voltage to the Starter via the BDC during a "start event", and you have good battery voltage on the large red Starter wire, and you get is a click on the Starter solenoid, could still mean your Starter has failed......and backed up with no serious codes......

[Edit: If that is all the codes on a flood vehicle, you lucked out big time.....you got a great deal]

Last edited by M_Bimmer; 01-11-2022 at 01:18 AM..
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      01-11-2022, 12:49 AM   #21
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^^^ That, Completely missed that. Is the starter even ok?

A flood car, and not a red tree, hella lucky. I was expecting all red honestly.
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      01-11-2022, 01:10 AM   #22
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Reference Post 19 from Chilled.

The BDC will only supply 12VDC (Terminal 50L) to the Starter, during the duration of a start event, which I think is limited to 30 seconds or less....but a quick way to determine if this signal "50L" from the BDC connector A258*2B, pin 1 is fine, is if you conduct a start event (push the start button), and hear the starter solenoid, then this signal is OK.

I put my money on a bad Starter......
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