Did I over pay for these repairs?

[Neem320]

My 2017 X5 35i just got a transmission service, transfer case service, and front & rear diff service from an Indy shop in my neighborhood.

Did I get a good deal?

[randrews15]

I haven't paid for service in a long time since I do them all myself. From what I can see it's a reasonable bill for paying someone for service. Obviously, if you had done it yourself it would be significantly cheaper.

[RED_Y_]

Depends on the labor prices in your area, you can also compare parts costs to the FCPEuro or similar but looks OK for me.

[XxBBVTMxX]

I do my own services.

Sorry, but I feel like you did overpay on parts… not sure on labor. Being an Indy, you should get your own parts and give it to them. Also, this all depends on what kind of warranty they gave you on parts and labor 🤷🏽

You can manage to buy the whole transmission fluid kit (pan w/ filter, 7-liters, bolts, gasket, drain plug & screw) for about $300+.

Also, the service they provided depends on whether they changed out the "whole" transmission fluid or just what was in the pan.

(ZF8 trans fluid "7-liters" on Amazon are at $138.50).

(ZF8 trans oil pan filter kit on Amazon for $250)

I'll stop here. I love Indy's but I buy my parts myself.

[pjfox23]

I'm in CT, which is relative to NY for pricing. Yes, that price is not very good....given the times we live in, it's not particularly bad either.

Almost three hours to change the transfer case fluid? Were they training someone who doesn't know anything about a car? I question their hourly times. Be sure they are giving you actual times and not book hour quotes ... although there is no way to be really sure unless you can watch them do it.

As mentioned the fluids are over-priced. But, sometimes, I get the convenience of not having to shop around, etc. I just purchase all of what is on the invoice you provided, plus spark plugs, plus brake fluid, plus power steering fluid, plus engine oil, plus cabin filters, and engine belt from ECSTuning for 739.47.

[Chilled]

Price wise;
It does look you paid a premium on things like the Transmission fluid (Lifeguard 8) @ FCPEuro, ECS they go for $23. If they used Lifeguard 9, then sure, fair price.

Labour wise;

• Am I reading that they charged 2.8 hours (168minutes) for the transfer case? This is an, at most 30minute job. Fill process is simple.
• Or the 3.9 hours (234minutes) to do the transmission oil change? Again, this is an at most 1 hour job, as you will spend 15-20minutes waiting for the transmission to come to correct temperature for final fill.
• Front/Rear diff, sure. Is not a 2 hour job. 1 hour should cover it as main challenge with it is the front, where you need drop the front under body splash guards. The fill is simple on both.

General Note;
Whilst i can't speak for the compatibility of the front/rear diff oil. I would as to clarify the oil that was put in the TC. Whilst on the forum, everyone has argued and debated about using oem vs other oils in the diffs. The consensus on the TC has been use BMW. Based on the price, it does look like a BMW OEM.


*EDIT*,

For your reference on what mechanically was done. Here are some FCP Euro vids, judge for your self if the timing feels accurate..

X5, Front Diff.

X5, Rear Diff.

X5, Transmission.

X5, Transfer Case. -Not FCP, Youtuber.

[crystalworks]

Originally Posted by Neem320

My 2017 X5 35i just got a transmission service, transfer case service, and front & rear diff service from an Indy shop in my neighborhood.

Did I get a good deal?

You did not get a good deal. Or a bad deal. That is a reasonable charge for what they did, especially as I assume they warranty the parts and work for at least 12 months.

The guys quoting DIY pricing or wholesale parts prices ordering your own parts are being narrow. I worked at a very capable indy. We would NEVER let a customer bring their own parts in. Markup was always 10-20% on wholesale pricing which still came out cheaper than dealer retail. Reason for this? Well obviously, if something happens, the customer is going to come to you... not the company they ordered parts from.

Also, berating charging book times? Come on. Just because a mechanic can do it in 30 minutes does not mean they did not earn book time. Experience and knowledge earned them whatever time the mechanic saved.

I am a DIY'er... and am loathe to take my car in to anyone for any kind of service. Hell, recently replaced the entire transmission, plus a ridiculous amount of maintenance on our 2010 35d for ~$2200. An indy would quote ~$15000 to do everything I did. Would I call the indy a rip off? No. My time (about 8 months because I was looking for a low-mileage trans at a steal) and knowledge saved me ~$13000. Not everyone has that luxury/ability and telling them they over payed, at least in this case, is 1. not true, and 2. not going to make them feel any better about paying a service bill.

BTW, performing a DIY trans service on a ZF trans can go horribly wrong. And very expensively.

[XxBBVTMxX]

Originally Posted by crystalworks

You did not get a good deal. Or a bad deal. That is a reasonable charge for what they did, especially as I assume they warranty the parts and work for at least 12 months.

The guys quoting DIY pricing or wholesale parts prices ordering your own parts are being narrow. I worked at a very capable indy. We would NEVER let a customer bring their own parts in. Markup was always 10-20% on wholesale pricing which still came out cheaper than dealer retail. Reason for this? Well obviously, if something happens, the customer is going to come to you... not the company they ordered parts from.

Also, berating charging book times? Come on. Just because a mechanic can do it in 30 minutes does not mean they did not earn book time. Experience and knowledge earned them whatever time the mechanic saved.

I am a DIY'er... and am loathe to take my car in to anyone for any kind of service. Hell, recently replaced the entire transmission, plus a ridiculous amount of maintenance on our 2010 35d for ~$2200. An indy would quote ~$15000 to do everything I did. Would I call the indy a rip off? No. My time (about 8 months because I was looking for a low-mileage trans at a steal) and knowledge saved me ~$13000. Not everyone has that luxury/ability and telling them they over payed, at least in this case, is 1. not true, and 2. not going to make them feel any better about paying a service bill.

BTW, performing a DIY trans service on a ZF trans can go horribly wrong. And very expensively.

Being narrow? Seriously?

Did you read your post before you submitted it? Being narrow 🙄

An Indy shop that doesn't allow you to bring in your own parts is not an Indy shop, that's like calling your stealership an Indy 🙄

[crystalworks]

Originally Posted by Chilled

Your saying that 8.5 hours, more than a full day is an acceptable charge. For in essence, a couple hours of work?

Yes. I can not do that work myself in 2 hours. Took me about 6 on our 35d and I didn't even do the front diff, which requires removal of the front wheel splash guard I believe for access to the plugs. Granted 30 minutes of that time is just getting the X up high enough, and safely on jack stands. I also dropped the Xfer case crossmember as TIS calls for when doing the Xfer case fluid as I could not get the fill plug back in during a dry run test with my gorilla hands.

Originally Posted by Chilled

And your example of $2,200 vs the $15,000 was that using the same parts. Because as you said, you looked for a used one. They would probably only installed a brand new one. Kinda need to compare apple to apples here.

I assume an indy would quote both a used trans and a reman one. $15000 could be for either depending on the shop. The $15k, as I mentioned, includes a bunch of other work, not just the trans. Did Xfer case mount, motor mounts, all vacuum lines, DPF cleaning, pressure converters, solenoids, rear main seal, fuel filter, etc.

The trans replacement itself (trans, fluid, seals, rebuild valve body) was only about $1500 of that $2200.

Originally Posted by Chilled

But anyways, for OP. If you feel that you were taking advantage of, overcharged. Shop around, give another shop a call and ask the for estimate on labour.

Agreed. Always good to comparison shop. Usually best before service though. If you call another shop, ask for the quote on the service without telling them you already had the work done. You'll never know if the quote is a real one if you say it's been performed already.

I think sometimes those who can DIY lose perspective that others lack the tools, time, experience, or ability to do some of these services that "we" consider "easy" and "cheap." I tell people all of the time. Do not buy a BMW without a good warranty unless you can wrench, are willing to learn new skills, or have deep pockets. But these days that applies to all car marques, not just BMW. My parents have gotten some ridiculous quotes at Infiniti to repair their FX35 and QX70. I always tell them to bring it over to the house and they pay me 1/3 of the dealer to fix it.

Originally Posted by XxBBVTMxX

An Indy shop that doesn't allow you to bring in your own parts is not an Indy shop, that's like calling your stealership an Indy ��

I don't know of any that allow you to around here, except for the "Bring Your Own Parts" franchises. And I wouldn't trust them to work on my Bimmers.

[XxBBVTMxX]

Originally Posted by crystalworks

I don't know of any that allow you to around here, except for the "Bring Your Own Parts" franchises. And I wouldn't trust them to work on my Bimmers.

Every Indy I have ever gone to has allowed me to bring my own parts. Specially when most European Indy's know we buy from FCP Euro.

… and this was before I started doing my own services.

If I go to a shop now and they won't take my parts, then I'll go somewhere else 🤷🏽

[Chilled]

Originally Posted by crystalworks

Yes. I can not do that work myself in 2 hours. Took me about 6 on our 35d and I didn't even do the front diff, which requires removal of the front wheel splash guard I believe for access to the plugs. Granted 30 minutes of that time is just getting the X up high enough, and safely on jack stands. I also dropped the Xfer case crossmember as TIS calls for when doing the Xfer case fluid as I could not get the fill plug back in during a dry run test with my gorilla hands.

I deleted my post as I didn't want to get into an argument, as I am feeling a little combative atm.

I will say one thing tho, If the shop you take it to does not have a hoist, or cannot afford one. You probably should go else where.



Oh an no, you don't need to drop that support crossmember. I wish people would stop spreading that BS. See my post here.
https://f15.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...1#post28480061

[XxBBVTMxX]

Originally Posted by Chilled

I deleted my post as I didn't want to get into an argument, as I am feeling a little combative atm.

I will say one thing tho, If the shop you take it to does not have a hoist, or cannot afford one. You probably should go else where.



Oh an no, you don't need to drop that support crossmember. I wish people would stop spreading that BS. See my post here.
https://f15.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...1#post28480061

How is it BS? Is dropping the support not gonna alow you to do that job? 🤔

I could not get the bolt out when I did mine, so I dropped it..

Also, I had zero clearance to torque properly with it there as well. So I dropped it.

Not to mention, if I could get it off by sliding it forward, I was NOT gonna make a huge oil mess by doing that… so I dropped it.

I'm glad you got around it without dropping it, and maybe others too. I dropped mine, it's done. 🤣🤷🏽

My vehicle runs fine, feels fine, and I dropped it 🤣

You have your way, and I have mine🤷🏽… but I dropped it 🤣🤷🏽

[Chilled]

Originally Posted by XxBBVTMxX

How is it BS?

I could not get the bolt out when I did mine, so I dropped it..

Also, I had zero clearance to torque properly with it there as well. So I dropped it.

Not to mention, if I could get it off by sliding it forward, I was NOT gonna make a huge oil mess by doing that… so I dropped it.

I'm glad you got around it without dropping it, and maybe others too. I dropped mine, it's done. ������

My vehicle runs fine, feels fine, and I dropped it ��

You have your way, and I have mine����*♂️… but I dropped it ������*♂️

It's BS because its not the only way. 9 out of 10 people here say that dropping/sliding it is mandatory, and are religiously fanatic about it as its the only way.

Well it's not. I did not even have to touch it, and 1 out of 10 members that I've seen do, did in a similar way.

Yes some custom/creative/niche tooling is needed, but I had no issues in torqueing the bolts to spec.


If I'm not mistake, the point of this thread, and TC conversation, is about knowledge. Having access to information and then making own decision based on the information provided. Hence why stating that you NEED to drop/slide the Xmember, like its the only way. Is BS.

PS. wtf is up with those imoji. Dude Instagram/Snapchat is the other app icon.

[XxBBVTMxX]

Originally Posted by Chilled

It's BS because its not the only way. 9 out of 10 people here say that dropping/sliding it is mandatory, and are religiously fanatic about it as its the only way.

Well it's not. I did not even have to touch it, and 1 out of 10 members that I've seen do, did in a similar way.

Yes some custom/creative/niche tooling is needed, but I had no issues in torqueing the bolts to spec.


If I'm not mistake, the point of this thread, and TC conversation, is about knowledge. Having access to information and then making own decision based on the information provided. Hence why stating that you NEEDto drop/slide the Xmember, like its the only way. Is BS.

After reading your post, I think your approach should have been "there is an easier way to do it" rather than saying it is BS.

My BS allowed me to do the job with zero problems.

This IS a forum to share and learn, and you are not the "all knowing member" here. Post replies the way you do things, and allow people to try and compare. But getting on here trying to call people out over what you know Vs. What they know is silly.

I'm not here for that. I'm a DIYer, and have had zero problem doing my own jobs. The thread is now yours ✌🏽

[Chilled]

Originally Posted by XxBBVTMxX

This IS a forum to share and learn, and you are not the "all knowing member" here. Post replies the way you do things, and allow people to try and compare. But getting on here trying to call people out over what you know Vs. What they know is silly.

I'm not here for that. I'm a DIYer, and have had zero problem doing my own jobs. The thread is now yours ✌��

All knowing?, hell no. With how little I know about these cars, i could be classed as criminally retarded.

I'm coming from a JDM background where I found both shops/tuners and forums (just stay out of the honda forums) are more open to passing on all the possible information. Anything and everything that is helpful. Where is here, it seems to be allot more, if you know, people kinda hold onto that.

So that's probably my frustration as a new comer to this community, is BMW knows best, or secret squirrel shop/tuner BS.

This scares new comers (speaking for myself here) as most are greeted with, these things are supper complicated and are made from Unobtainium. The reality is just lack of clear, and simple information.



Anayways, i think we've given OP enough to ponder over.


*Edit*, I just realized that calling myself retarder, is offensive to people whom are handicapped. The better option would be that my "idiocy/lack of knowledge/stupidity" can be weaponized.

[brianhinton77]

IMO, I think price on parts is inline but on the high side, but the labor is out….diff’s should be about an hour and transmission oil and filter with proper filling takes about 2 hours at most. Of course, that being said, 3-4 hours at a good shop with a lift, 5-6 on a day they are moving slow….

[bmwx5er]

You overpaid on labor. Parts are ok.

[crystalworks]

Originally Posted by Chilled

I will say one thing tho, If the shop you take it to does not have a hoist, or cannot afford one. You probably should go else where.

Oh an no, you don't need to drop that support crossmember. I wish people would stop spreading that BS. See my post here.
https://f15.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...1#post28480061

For sure, the shop would not have a 30 minute "setup time" to get the vehicle in the air. Hah, that was me trying to give an excuse for being a slow wrench.

Absolutely aware no need to drop the Xmember. As stated, I tried it first without dropping it because I read it was possible (from yourself and another member). For me, it wasn't going to happen. During the dry run test I couldn't get the plug back in without fumbling around or it dropping. Would have made a huge mess leading to frustration and cursing. Took me 30-45 minutes to drop Xmember and made the work straight forward. If you can easily do it without dropping it, more power to you. A lift would possibly help, I was working on my back with about 18-20" of clearance. I detailed the process for dropping the Xmember in my maintenance thread though. As you said, sharing info is always good.

Anyway, I think we've given the OP his answer. Consensus seems to be, parts are priced okay, and labor is a bit on the high side. I think it's pretty fair, but I'm just one man.

[Vivek.]

To the OP's question, what's done is done and you paid for the shop's warranty/experience/insurance so if they fucked your trans, you're not on the hook for a new one.

To the rest of this thread...

[The Libertine]

Originally Posted by Vivek.

To the OP's question, what's done is done and you paid for the shop's warranty/experience/insurance so if they fucked your trans, you're not on the hook for a new one.

To the rest of this thread...

I agree. And, if the repair brings the OP peace of mind, I say let it rest.

[parthpatel1]

Is this service (specifically diff and transmission) usually done on mileage based or time based? I have 2015 x5 35i and deciding when it is necessary. ~46k miles.

[sukhk527]

Originally Posted by parthpatel1

Is this service (specifically diff and transmission) usually done on mileage based or time based? I have 2015 x5 35i and deciding when it is necessary. ~46k miles.

I did all that on mine at 40k for peace of mind since we're tuning and beating on it.

And as for the OP, I'm not a wrencher or DIYer and I think what you paid is reasonable considering it's about a whole days work and they sourced the parts for you.