Anyone for Piggy Pipes???

scalbert · 03-18-2008, 08:06 PM

Some will know what I am referring to; most won't.

Anyway, I will be trying out this change and see if there are benefits. For those wondering, Piggy Pipes are simply modified stock downpipes. You simply gut the pre-cat. Now before people start claiming it won't work; I am not suggesting it will. However, there are precedents that show it can work.

The Audi B5 S4 (the 2.7 V6 Twin Turbo, for those who are not aware) had individual downpipes with a pre-cat and post-cat. This is similar to what the N54 has although both DP's are on the same side.

The original Piggy Pipes were thought to be a joke and most thought they would not work. They ended up working very well. From most accounts, they made about 90% of the power that fully fabricated DP's made but at little to no cost. I made 388 WHP on mine and others have exceeded 400 WHP.

DrewKo and I will be trying this out and see if there is any benefit. I suspect there will not be any negative issues (other than those faced with all other catless DP's). But the power gains will be left to be seen. I suspect there will be gains and they may be noticeable. If so, this may spawn a market to trade stock DP's.

wj4 · 03-18-2008, 08:08 PM

I've had friends do this to several cars. Best of luck to you!

ArmyBimmerDude · 03-18-2008, 08:08 PM

Soooooo Piggy pipes = gutted stock downpipes?

I was thinking about doing this, but once they're gutted, you'd need to buy new DP's to go back to stock. Don't know if this makes much sense.

e90AW335i · 03-18-2008, 08:09 PM

VIP tuning was doing this for a while and got a lot of B.S. for it. I am sure it will provide similar power to actual catless DPS, but the sound might not be as nice....

e90AW335i · 03-18-2008, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArmyBimmerDude

I was thinking about doing this, but once they're gutted, you'd need to buy new DP's to go back to stock. Don't know if this makes much sense.

+1, that is a good point as well...

jpsimon · 03-18-2008, 08:10 PM

People gutted the stock uppipes on wrx's and that worked just fine. So I don't see why this wouldn't work. The results will be very interesting!

scalbert · 03-18-2008, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArmyBimmerDude

Soooooo Piggy pipes = gutted stock downpipes?

I was thinking about doing this, but once they're gutted, you'd need to buy new DP's to go back to stock. Don't know if this makes much sense.

If it works, there will be a market for trading DP's just like what emerged with the Audi crowd. You could sell your stock ones to soemone with modded or vice versa.

scalbert · 03-18-2008, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by e90AW335i

VIP tuning was doing this for a while and got a lot of B.S. for it. I am sure it will provide similar power to actual catless DPS, but the sound might not be as nice....

That was the one catch, the sound, to some, was not as nice.

ArmyBimmerDude · 03-18-2008, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scalbert

If it works, there will be a market for trading DP's just like what emerged with the Audi crowd. You could sell your stock ones to soemone with modded or vice versa.

Ah, that makes sense.

Well I can't see how this won't work. Why wouldnt gutted stock DPs provide the same/near equal gains that the UR or RR DP's provide? Plus its a FREE mod!

ArmyBimmerDude · 03-18-2008, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scalbert

That was the one catch, the sound, to some, was not as nice.

Isnt that the issue with all catless DP's? The sound and rasp?

e90AW335i · 03-18-2008, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArmyBimmerDude

Ah, that makes sense.

Well I can't see how this won't work. Why wouldnt gutted stock DPs provide the same/near equal gains that the UR or RR DP's provide? Plus its a FREE mod!

Maybe because there is more turbulance in the exhaust since it is not a strait pipe? I am just guessing... Steve, is that possible?

NYCGarbagePrince · 03-18-2008, 08:20 PM

They work just fine.. I know of 4 cars around here that are running them.. along with VIPs car when they ran the 11.9 .. Don't sound bad at all..

scalbert · 03-18-2008, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArmyBimmerDude

Isnt that the issue with all catless DP's? The sound and rasp?

With the B5 S4, some complained of the sandblaster sound. I never noticed it or my perception of it was off. I can't say what this vehicle will sound like though.

NYCGarbagePrince · 03-18-2008, 08:22 PM

No worse than any other catless downpipes that is..

bmwzimmer · 03-18-2008, 08:25 PM

It's better to spend the $$ to get fabricated DP's. What if you ever need to return the car back to stock for whatever reason. BMW OEM part will cost a few G's I'm sure.

scalbert · 03-18-2008, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by e90AW335i

Maybe because there is more turbulance in the exhaust since it is not a strait pipe? I am just guessing... Steve, is that possible?

Size and bends are the major factors for differing power. But in most cases, the differences were minimal. As someone really started getting up there in power, they did become a limiting factor. But for most, I suspect they may work. With a good intake and Piggy Pipes (although we may need to change the name) and the associated tune, 380 - 400 WHP on 93+ may be a reality. But if 450 + WHP is desired, a set of RR DP's may be required.

Again, this is hypothetical but will be tested.

e90AW335i · 03-18-2008, 08:28 PM

I suppose you are talking about tunes that are able to run 14-15psi on pump gas....

scalbert · 03-18-2008, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYCGarbagePrince

They work just fine.. I know of 4 cars around here that are running them.. along with VIPs car when they ran the 11.9 .. Don't sound bad at all..

For example, this was on my 388 WHP pull. The induction sound overshadowed the exhaust note and this was with a Borla system:

http://www.flwse.com/images/steve/Dy...calbert_S4.mp3

scalbert · 03-18-2008, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmwzimmer

It's better to spend the $$ to get fabricated DP's. What if you ever need to return the car back to stock for whatever reason. BMW OEM part will cost a few G's I'm sure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scalbert

If it works, there will be a market for trading DP's just like what emerged with the Audi crowd. You could sell your stock ones to soemone with modded or vice versa.

ArmyBimmerDude · 03-18-2008, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scalbert

For example, this was on my 388 WHP pull. The induction sound overshadowed the exhaust note and this was with a Borla system:

http://www.flwse.com/images/steve/Dy...calbert_S4.mp3

Sounds good to me.

scalbert · 03-18-2008, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by e90AW335i

I suppose you are talking about tunes that are able to run 14-15psi on pump gas....

I cannot say anything for sure at this point. But I am confident many will be there in the future. This market is still juvenile and all things will improve.

NYCGarbagePrince · 03-18-2008, 08:31 PM

A friend of mine had Champion motorsports custom made K04's for his B5 and the car was absolutely balls to the wall... until he blew it up.. and 2 weeks later blew up his V8 S4.. in 2 weeks he went from having 2 s4's to driving around a rental car for 3 months.

03-18-2008, 08:06 PM	#1
scalbert Major General 153 Rep 5,780 Posts Drives: '13 S4, '15 Q7 Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Woodstock, GA iTrader: (8)	Anyone for Piggy Pipes??? Some will know what I am referring to; most won't. Anyway, I will be trying out this change and see if there are benefits. For those wondering, Piggy Pipes are simply modified stock downpipes. You simply gut the pre-cat. Now before people start claiming it won't work; I am not suggesting it will. However, there are precedents that show it can work. The Audi B5 S4 (the 2.7 V6 Twin Turbo, for those who are not aware) had individual downpipes with a pre-cat and post-cat. This is similar to what the N54 has although both DP's are on the same side. The original Piggy Pipes were thought to be a joke and most thought they would not work. They ended up working very well. From most accounts, they made about 90% of the power that fully fabricated DP's made but at little to no cost. I made 388 WHP on mine and others have exceeded 400 WHP. DrewKo and I will be trying this out and see if there is any benefit. I suspect there will not be any negative issues (other than those faced with all other catless DP's). But the power gains will be left to be seen. I suspect there will be gains and they may be noticeable. If so, this may spawn a market to trade stock DP's.
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03-18-2008, 08:08 PM	#2
wj4 Major General 339 Rep 7,719 Posts Drives: E90 manual 335i Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Burbank, CA iTrader: (8)	I've had friends do this to several cars. Best of luck to you!
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03-18-2008, 08:08 PM	#3
ArmyBimmerDude Major General 152 Rep 5,501 Posts Drives: Lola Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Georgia iTrader: (3) Garage List 02/2007 E92 335i [0.00]	Soooooo Piggy pipes = gutted stock downpipes? I was thinking about doing this, but once they're gutted, you'd need to buy new DP's to go back to stock. Don't know if this makes much sense. __________________ 2007 E92 Montego Blue 335i
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03-18-2008, 08:09 PM	#4
e90AW335i Major General 138 Rep 6,608 Posts Drives: e90 335i Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: ...... iTrader: (4)	VIP tuning was doing this for a while and got a lot of B.S. for it. I am sure it will provide similar power to actual catless DPS, but the sound might not be as nice.... __________________ I install all tunes, intakes, o2 simms, and most cosmetic mods. PM me for a quote.
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03-18-2008, 08:10 PM	#6
jpsimon Team Zissou 3082 Rep 10,198 Posts Drives: 2022 AWD M3 Comp - SMB Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: CT iTrader: (7)	People gutted the stock uppipes on wrx's and that worked just fine. So I don't see why this wouldn't work. The results will be very interesting!
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03-18-2008, 08:20 PM	#12
NYCGarbagePrince Major 247 Rep 1,435 Posts Drives: X6 50i Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: NYC iTrader: (0)	They work just fine.. I know of 4 cars around here that are running them.. along with VIPs car when they ran the 11.9 .. Don't sound bad at all..
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03-18-2008, 08:22 PM	#14
NYCGarbagePrince Major 247 Rep 1,435 Posts Drives: X6 50i Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: NYC iTrader: (0)	No worse than any other catless downpipes that is..
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03-18-2008, 08:25 PM	#15
bmwzimmer Major 35 Rep 1,084 Posts Drives: 335 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: 91 octane states iTrader: (0)	It's better to spend the $$ to get fabricated DP's. What if you ever need to return the car back to stock for whatever reason. BMW OEM part will cost a few G's I'm sure.
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03-18-2008, 08:28 PM	#17
e90AW335i Major General 138 Rep 6,608 Posts Drives: e90 335i Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: ...... iTrader: (4)	I suppose you are talking about tunes that are able to run 14-15psi on pump gas.... __________________ I install all tunes, intakes, o2 simms, and most cosmetic mods. PM me for a quote.
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03-18-2008, 08:31 PM	#22
NYCGarbagePrince Major 247 Rep 1,435 Posts Drives: X6 50i Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: NYC iTrader: (0)	A friend of mine had Champion motorsports custom made K04's for his B5 and the car was absolutely balls to the wall... until he blew it up.. and 2 weeks later blew up his V8 S4.. in 2 weeks he went from having 2 s4's to driving around a rental car for 3 months.
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