Lap times: G87 M2 AT versus G87 M2 MT versus F87 M2CS (by former rally driver)

VIERsr · 07-02-2023, 12:26 PM

Featured on BIMMERPOST.com

Small disclaimer: he is a former rally driver and currently the owner of a big Italian BMW dealership, so he has to promote new cars for sales reasons (my opinion).

Quick recap:
- The video was recorded on a slightly rainy day, while the lap times were taken on a dry day.
- G87 both with Pzero, CS with Pilot SuperSport.
- G87 a bit more fun and reactive than the G82.
- F87 more responsive and nervous, even too much for his taste, sometimes difficult to control.
- In some corners (long and fast) the MT drifts better because it can hold 2nd gear, in others (slow) the AT drifts better because the shorter 2nd gear delivers more torque at low speed.
- The slower shifts of the MT are balanced by the fewer shifts needed on a lap due to the longer ratios.
- He didn't feel much difference between the AT and MT on the G87, while the manual CS (this one) was much slower and worse than the CS DKG he had driven some time ago, mainly because of the tires (SS vs Cup2).
- He did not feel the weight of the G87 (at least for one lap).
- Overall, he liked the G87 better (and gave me the feeling that the automatic more than the manual).

- His watch is more desirable and harder to have than the M2.

M2siast · 07-02-2023, 07:30 PM

Intersting how the new M2 is much more controllable according to him. The CS was more track oriented.

The new M2 is truly the best. I can’t wait to get out of break-in and take it on the track to explore more of its capabilities.

tfunk88 · 07-02-2023, 07:50 PM

Odd that they ran the CS on PSS tires.

The CS is the only one I heard him say “molto molto MOLTO BENE!!!” while driving lol

M2siast · 07-02-2023, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tfunk88

Odd that they ran the CS on PSS tires.

The CS is the only one I heard him say “molto molto MOLTO BENE!!!” while driving lol

Hahahaha OMG these guys can’t stop grasping at straws…

If it was reversed: “odd that they ran the G87 on Pzero tires”

Molto bene is his expression of enthusiasm for being able to control the CS…

werdn · 07-02-2023, 08:22 PM

I thought the "F generation" M cars were "nervous" in general. When I drove them, they felt like too much throttle too quickly then the rear will break loose. This is obviously a dramatic difference than I was used to in the last E generation with little/no torque and power up very high (8000rpm).

I think the f8x competition cars corrected this? But the m5 was a bit spikey compared to e60

Ravenseal · 07-02-2023, 08:33 PM

1:18.69 for the auto G87.
1:18.75 for the manual G87.
1:18.87 for the auto CS F87.
1:19.92 for the manual CS F87.
1:18.98 for a Cayman GT4.

M2siast · 07-02-2023, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ravenseal

1:18.69 for the auto G87.
1:18.75 for the manual G87.
1:18.87 for the manual CS F87.

1:19.92 for the manual CS.

The time you posted is for the DCT CS on Cup 2 Tires.

Ravenseal · 07-02-2023, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M2siast

1:19.92 for the manual CS.

The time you posted is for the DCT CS on Cup 2 Tires.

Yeah, I fixed it.

Tag · 07-02-2023, 08:48 PM

Can't help but wonder how much better the time would have been if the G87s had MPS4S'.

DailyDownshift · 07-02-2023, 08:52 PM

G87 FTW!

Fugly M3 · 07-02-2023, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tag

Can't help but wonder how much better the time would have been if the G87s had MPS4S'.

C&D did a test of an M3CX that happened to have the Pirellis. The difference vs. the M4CX they tested wearing Michelins wasn't as dramatic as one would expect - further complicated by the fact that the M4 is designed to (and does) perform just a hair better than the M3.

Tag · 07-02-2023, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fugly M3

C&D did a test of an M3CX that happened to have the Pirellis. The difference vs. the M4CX they tested wearing Michelins wasn't as dramatic as one would expect - further complicated by the fact that the M4 is designed to (and does) perform just a hair better than the M3.

I guess that makes sense with M xDrive but being the G87s are RWD I'd expect the MPS4S' to have a substantial impact on its time.

M2siast · 07-02-2023, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tag

I guess that makes sense with M xDrive but being the G87s are RWD I'd expect the MPS4S' to have a substantial impact on its time.

Why?

M2PDX · 07-02-2023, 09:20 PM

Hmmmm .... where have all the G87 haters gone these past few weeks???

What happened to all those who claimed repeatedly and LOUDLY that the G87 was a pig and the F87 (which I have and love) would issue a beat down in any competition?

Where oh where did they go?

Hellooooooooo????

M2siast · 07-02-2023, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M2PDX

Hmmmm .... where have all the G87 haters gone these past few weeks???

What happened to all those who claimed repeatedly and LOUDLY that the G87 was a pig and the F87 (which I have and love) would issue a beat down in any competition?

Where oh where did they go?

Hellooooooooo????

They’re still around, just trying to troll in different ways. When there was no data they were very vocal with their speculations.

Now that there is, it’s more thinly veiled.
“It had worse tires”
“The driver sounded happier in one turn”
“It’s more reliable”

Wait for scenes of next episodes…

tfunk88 · 07-02-2023, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M2siast

Hahahaha OMG these guys can’t stop grasping at straws…

If it was reversed: “odd that they ran the G87 on Pzero tires”

Molto bene is his expression of enthusiasm for being able to control the CS…

Grasping at straws? I don’t own an F87 or a G87. I don’t plan to purchase either of them. Just thought it was interesting.

M2siast · 07-02-2023, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tfunk88

Grasping at straws? I don’t own an F87 or a G87. I don’t plan to purchase either of them. Just thought it was interesting.

Why was it interesting?
It is the tires the car came with…

tfunk88 · 07-02-2023, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M2siast

Why was it interesting?
It is the tires the car came with…

Well, those tires would be 3 years old, lots of heat cycles and miles compared to new tires. Unless they put on brand new tires just for this comparison.

M2siast · 07-02-2023, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tfunk88

Well, those tires would be 3 years old, lots of heat cycles and miles compared to new tires. Unless they put on brand new tires just for this comparison.

Sorry, what’s your point exactly?

Are you now saying you’re surprised they compared the car with old tires against cars with new tires (an assumption you’re making) or are you still surprised they replaced the stock tires with factory tires instead of some aftermarket option?

cmgbk75 · 07-02-2023, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tfunk88

Well, those tires would be 3 years old, lots of heat cycles and miles compared to new tires. Unless they put on brand new tires just for this comparison.

Come on now, my popcorn is getting cold.

tfunk88 · 07-02-2023, 09:45 PM

3 year old tires with lots of miles would make a huge difference. And if replacing tires why would they use old tech tires?

Anyway…nevermind. Done wasting my time 😉

M2siast · 07-02-2023, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tfunk88

3 year old tires with lots of miles would make a huge difference. And if replacing tires why would they use old tech tires?

Anyway…nevermind. Done wasting my time 😉

Because dealers will always install star spec tires in cars.
So, no matter what tires you car had, you get them replaced with the same tires. Not different “non-star” spec tires. It doesn’t make sense.
And if the car did have non-star spec tires, you (or your gang) would come here saying it was “interesting” they chose to outfit the car with non-star spec aftermarket tires.

There is no winning when it comes to bias.

But I hope you at least learned something, so it wasn’t such a waste of time for you.

I don’t mind wasting mine educating folks who find interesting things out of mundane issues.

07-02-2023, 12:26 PM	#1
VIERsr Major 2623 Rep 1,477 Posts Drives: BMW M2 Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Zurich iTrader: (0) Garage List 2019 M2 Competition [0.00]	Lap times: G87 M2 AT versus G87 M2 MT versus F87 M2CS (by former rally driver) Featured on BIMMERPOST.com Small disclaimer: he is a former rally driver and currently the owner of a big Italian BMW dealership, so he has to promote new cars for sales reasons (my opinion). Quick recap: - The video was recorded on a slightly rainy day, while the lap times were taken on a dry day. - G87 both with Pzero, CS with Pilot SuperSport. - G87 a bit more fun and reactive than the G82. - F87 more responsive and nervous, even too much for his taste, sometimes difficult to control. - In some corners (long and fast) the MT drifts better because it can hold 2nd gear, in others (slow) the AT drifts better because the shorter 2nd gear delivers more torque at low speed. - The slower shifts of the MT are balanced by the fewer shifts needed on a lap due to the longer ratios. - He didn't feel much difference between the AT and MT on the G87, while the manual CS (this one) was much slower and worse than the CS DKG he had driven some time ago, mainly because of the tires (SS vs Cup2). - He did not feel the weight of the G87 (at least for one lap). - Overall, he liked the G87 better (and gave me the feeling that the automatic more than the manual). - His watch is more desirable and harder to have than the M2. Last edited by VIERsr; 07-03-2023 at 12:24 AM..
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07-02-2023, 07:30 PM	#2
M2siast Brigadier General 5943 Rep 3,016 Posts Drives: A Family Sedan Join Date: May 2023 Location: Canada iTrader: (0) Garage List 2023 BMW M2 [9.67]	Intersting how the new M2 is much more controllable according to him. The CS was more track oriented. The new M2 is truly the best. I can’t wait to get out of break-in and take it on the track to explore more of its capabilities.
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07-02-2023, 07:50 PM	#3
tfunk88 Lieutenant 200 Rep 494 Posts Drives: F15 X5 50i Join Date: Apr 2023 Location: WV iTrader: (0)	Odd that they ran the CS on PSS tires. The CS is the only one I heard him say “molto molto MOLTO BENE!!!” while driving lol
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07-02-2023, 08:22 PM	#5
werdn Lieutenant 663 Rep 473 Posts Drives: 997.1 GT3 Shark, ex E92 M3 ZCP Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Palos Verdes Peninsula (Los Angeles) iTrader: (0)	I thought the "F generation" M cars were "nervous" in general. When I drove them, they felt like too much throttle too quickly then the rear will break loose. This is obviously a dramatic difference than I was used to in the last E generation with little/no torque and power up very high (8000rpm). I think the f8x competition cars corrected this? But the m5 was a bit spikey compared to e60
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07-02-2023, 08:33 PM	#6
Ravenseal Lieutenant Colonel 2871 Rep 1,806 Posts Drives: 2023 M2 6MT Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Denver iTrader: (0)	1:18.69 for the auto G87. 1:18.75 for the manual G87. 1:18.87 for the auto CS F87. 1:19.92 for the manual CS F87. 1:18.98 for a Cayman GT4. __________________ 2023 G87 M2 - Toronto Red \| 6MT \| M HAS \| CF Roof \| BMW 826M Forged Wheels \| Mishimoto Skid Plate \| Active Autowerks Single Midpipe Retired: 2022 M240i xDrive \| 2021 Audi RS5 \| 2019 Camaro 2SS 1LE 6MT \| 2016 428i GC \| 2011 BMW 335is
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07-02-2023, 08:48 PM	#9
Tag this is the way 18355 Rep 8,561 Posts Drives: N-1 starfighter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Chicago iTrader: (3)	Can't help but wonder how much better the time would have been if the G87s had MPS4S'.
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07-02-2023, 08:52 PM	#10
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07-02-2023, 09:20 PM	#14
M2PDX Lieutenant Colonel 2966 Rep 1,620 Posts Drives: 2017 M2 Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Portland, Oregon iTrader: (0)	Hmmmm .... where have all the G87 haters gone these past few weeks??? What happened to all those who claimed repeatedly and LOUDLY that the G87 was a pig and the F87 (which I have and love) would issue a beat down in any competition? Where oh where did they go? Hellooooooooo????
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07-02-2023, 09:45 PM	#21
tfunk88 Lieutenant 200 Rep 494 Posts Drives: F15 X5 50i Join Date: Apr 2023 Location: WV iTrader: (0)	3 year old tires with lots of miles would make a huge difference. And if replacing tires why would they use old tech tires? Anyway…nevermind. Done wasting my time 😉
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