[AlexC2er]

After reading a shit ton of posts. Apparently US and Europe/other spec says different approved oil in the manual. My 2024 only lists longlife 17 fe+ as the ONLY approved oil spec. I’ve heard some use ll01 and ll04 to ll12. During summer time I want to change to 0w30. Now I don’t know what the heck to choose. Can anyone tell me definitively that which oil spec I am safe to use?

[Pentland]

The one listed in the manual for your country.

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by Pentland

The one listed in the manual for your country.

Yep.

[AlexC2er]

Originally Posted by RockCrusher

Yep.

So if I’m going to track days occasionally in the summer I have to use 0w20? That’s sound like way too thin. Not trying to be rude but I’m just looking for alternatives

[CarPoor]

Originally Posted by AlexC2er

So if I’m going to track days occasionally in the summer I have to use 0w20? That’s sound like way too thin. Not trying to be rude but I’m just looking for alternatives

I’ve been running ll 04 5w40’s or 5w30’s in mine since I’m now tracking it. That said the couple of occasions I did track on 0w20 my oil temps didn’t go above 237F and that was warmer days. My manual says ll 17FE or ll19FE, but I’ve yet to find the latter.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by AlexC2er

After reading a shit ton of posts. Apparently US and Europe/other spec says different approved oil in the manual. My 2024 only lists longlife 17 fe+ as the ONLY approved oil spec. I’ve heard some use ll01 and ll04 to ll12. During summer time I want to change to 0w30. Now I don’t know what the heck to choose. Can anyone tell me definitively that which oil spec I am safe to use?

LL04 oils are similar to LL17fe but in a higher viscosity.

Shell Euro L 5w30 for example.

BMW recommends 0w20 for CAFE. However, this doesn't mean 0w20 is inadequate in daily or spirited driving . Also, running a thicker oil in the summer really doesn't have as much of a benefit in water-cooled engine because oil temps never get high enough to cause permanent shearing.

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by AlexC2er

So if I’m going to track days occasionally in the summer I have to use 0w20? That’s sound like way too thin. Not trying to be rude but I’m just looking for alternatives

My 2024 230i xDrive owners manual appears to allow both 0w-20 and 0w-30 oils.

A pic from the applicable page from the digital manual is attached.

If your owners manual has something similar then the factory sanctions either oil.

But I'll include this -- a paste from the owners manual:

Further information on suitable engine oil specifications and viscosity classes can be obtained from a Service Partner of the manufacturer or another qualified Service Partner or a specialist workshop.

The above just in case BMW has overruled what's in the owners manual.

As an aside I have had some experience with other brands of cars and the factory allowing for different multi-viscosity grades of oils.

For example I found Porsche allowed the use of besides the factory fill 0w-40 oil, a number of 5w-40 oils and even one 5w-50 oil.

There was a big warning to use 0w-40 oil in temperatures -17F (-25C) or colder. This was not a concern for me. My driving rather was in much warmer temperatures sometimes in triple digit temperatures. (See pic below.)

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by RockCrusher

My 2024 230i xDrive owners manual appears to allow both 0w-20 and 0w-30 oils.

A pic from the applicable page from the digital manual is attached.

If your owners manual has something similar then the factory sanctions either oil.

But I'll include this — a paste from the owners manual:

Further information on suitable engine oil specifications and viscosity classes can be obtained from a Service Partner of the manufacturer or another qualified Service Partner or a specialist workshop.

The above just in case BMW has overruled what's in the owners manual.

As an aside I have had some experience with other brands of cars and the factory allowing for different multi-viscosity grades of oils.

For example I found Porsche allowed the use of besides the factory fill 0w-40 oil, a number of 5w-40 oils and even one 5w-50 oil.

There was a big warning to use 0w-40 oil in temperatures -17F (-25C) or colder. This was not a concern for me. My driving rather was in much warmer temperatures sometimes in triple digit temperatures. (See pic below.)

LL12fe is a thinner 30 grade This is a fuel efficiency version of LL04.

European automakers categorize oil approvals by HTHS and SAPS.

HTHS of 3.5 or above will be LL04/LL01. These oils are disappearing in many markets because of emissions/fuel efficiency pressures. These oil can be 30 or 40 grades

HTHS >2.9 - 3.5 are only 30 grades. LL01fe/LL12fe.

HTHS <2.9 can only be 20 grades and lower.

Everything is a compromise though. Chain guides at the expense of expensive CAFE penalties. The owners manual is written to deter owners from using a grade that is heavier than what the vehicle was certified with.

On and aside. M1 ESP 5w30 is a great alternative because it's both C3( LL04) and meets the fuel efficiency test of C2.

[MPR]

I thought about switching to a 30 weight just because more viscosity sounded better but decided to stick with a LL17FE oil, specifically LiquiMoly TopTec 6600 0w20. I trust who engineered the engine more than what I read in a forum or my caveman level of oil knowledge.

The clearances on bearing surfaces and oil passages are designed for a specific flow and thus a specific thickness of the oil (at temperature). If your oil is too think it won’t flow good enough and the bearings will be starved.

[CarPoor]

Originally Posted by MPR

I thought about switching to a 30 weight just because more viscosity sounded better but decided to stick with a LL17FE oil, specifically LiquiMoly TopTec 6600 0w20. I trust who engineered the engine more than what I read in a forum or my caveman level of oil knowledge.

The clearances on bearing surfaces and oil passages are designed for a specific flow and thus a specific thickness of the oil (at temperature). If your oil is too think it won’t flow good enough and the bearings will be starved.

Same engines are often getting ll04 in EU though. Mattsheng has also posted a service manual snip or technical brief showing anything from ll17fe up to ll01, so hths of 2.6cst up to ~3.5 and 8cst @ 100c up to >12. Just saying there are clearly a few mechanically permissible options and not contesting ll17fe or your choice.

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by MPR

I thought about switching to a 30 weight just because more viscosity sounded better but decided to stick with a LL17FE oil, specifically LiquiMoly TopTec 6600 0w20. I trust who engineered the engine more than what I read in a forum or my caveman level of oil knowledge.

The clearances on bearing surfaces and oil passages are designed for a specific flow and thus a specific thickness of the oil (at temperature). If your oil is too think it won’t flow good enough and the bearings will be starved.

Not a scientific study but I switched my 996 Turbo from 0w-40 oil to 5w-50 oil. As best I could tell the hot idle oil pressure remained unchanged. What 5w-50 brought with it was better HTHS (high temperature/high stress) number compared to 0w-40 oil.

Oh, and the W viscosity was 5 rather than 0. Porsche was ok with this as long as the car was not used in cold temperature. The threshold was -17F (-25C).

A too high a viscosity of oil can be as bad as too low. As you touched upon clearances are important. Main and rod bearing clearances can be as low as a 0.001" or so. Too much viscosity can impede oil flow into and possibly out of the bearings.

Hydraulic lifter clearances are even "tighter", precise sliding fits. (A Porsche hydraulic lifter rinsed with brake cleaner (no residue) still manifested resistant to compression due to the air being "trapped" in the lifter. The fit was that close.)

There is oil flow concern but also heat. A more viscous oil can run hotter in the bearings and hotter enough to possible risk oil break down.

Found these at the Castrol web site. Castrol makes/bottles the BMW oil is my information. I'm not suggesting one use Castrol oil in place of BMW oil I'm only providing this info for comparison sake. I believe the numbers would be the same if one had the same product data sheets of BMW oil. But no guarantees. Wonder if I could get product data sheets for BMW oil as the dealer?

The takeaways I note are the viscosity at 100C is 8.18 (0w-20) vs. 12.3 (0w-30) and the viscosity index of 168 (0w-20) vs. 205 (0w-30).

But as I mentioned above and as you touched upon "more viscosity" might not be better...

However, at least in the case of my 2024 230i xDrive BMW (at least in the owners manual) allows for the use of 0w-20 or 0w-30 oil. I have not confirmed 0w-30 oil is ok to use with my BMW dealer.

[CarPoor]

Shared elsewhere by Mattsheng. 40wt is fine as is the BMW TPT 0w30 ll fe which is rather stout if not in an S type engine. Bearing clearance on the B58 from what I’ve been able to find is loose enough to require 40wt for ultimate hydro dynamic protection. No where near as tight as say the S65 and 85. Haven’t looked at the B46 or B48.

[AlexC2er]

Originally Posted by CarPoor

Shared elsewhere by Mattsheng. 40wt is fine as is the BMW TPT 0w30 ll fe which is rather stout if not in an S type engine. Bearing clearance on the B58 from what I’ve been able to find is loose enough to require 40wt for ultimate hydro dynamic protection. No where near as tight as say the S65 and 85. Haven’t looked at the B46 or B48.

I asked my service advisor he said ll-01 0w30 is fine

[CarPoor]

Originally Posted by AlexC2er

I asked my service advisor he said ll-01 0w30 is fine

You’re good then. Roll on.

[chris719]

I would run an LL01 or LL04 3.5 HTHS oil in this engine if you care about protection above all. B58 does well with the thinner oils but S58 does not have the fancy IROX bearing coating and uses the same bearing materials used in S55 and S63.

[AlexC2er]

Originally Posted by chris719

I would run an LL01 or LL04 3.5 HTHS oil in this engine if you care about protection above all. B58 does well with the thinner oils but S58 does not have the fancy IROX bearing coating and uses the same bearing materials used in S55 and S63.

Yeah I decided to go with the Castrol edge 0w30 ll01. It’s quite annoying that bmw recommends and puts in 0w20 for fuel economy. Especially for people who gets the mx40i, I think most people not gonna care about a few mpg worse.