F1 2024: Qatar GP - Lusail (Dec 1)

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by Artemis

During the Qatar Sprint, Red Bull changed the nose wing of Perez's car to test a different setup, collecting data for the Qatar qualies.

When asked about the bizarre pit lane start following the Qatar Sprint, Perez suggested that he had intended to find space on track, to collect setup data:
"The main objective of today was to be as further back as possible to have as much clean air as possible – that was the objective" and "I think we managed to understand the car with the changes we’ve done, I think there is some room to improve. What we have to do going forward, we have to try and bring a little bit more balance to the car."

But Horner said something different: "I don’t know, to be honest. I need to have a chat with him about it. It looked like he just misjudged it, but when the light goes out, you’re supposed to go.".

So maybe in the end Perez actively contributed to the performance improvement (qualies and race) ?

This should be the scary thing for other teams next year. While most of them found time, they likely are at the top of their dev curve, and there will be limited time to work on 2025's car before focusing on 2026's car. RB already started working on the 2025 car now a year ago or so, and while this year, they may have stepped back a bit, this means they probably have the most performance to gain and certainly even a small thing like in Qatar yielded big results.
On top of that, FIA clamping down on illegal mini-DRS, the water in the tires (?), and the floor plank trickery, it means these things that were advantages for other teams are no longer.

[FrankMstein]

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

The proof is in the data. No one else could have won a WDC in this RB20 and certainly no driver, even the exceptionally talented Schumacher, likely would have struggled to win the title in Max's car. The fact that this has not happened in 4 decades further underscores that the immensely competitive landscape of current (2022+) F1 is easily the hardest field to win a title in given the fact that the deck is stacked against the top driver, top team in almost every way conceivable, and all of the benefit is provided to lesser teams. It makes the 3 in a row during this regulation cycle all that much more impressive to say the least. If Max can win next year, and win every WDC during a regulation cycle would be another first ever. Again, his 4 titles are the most impressive in F1 history along with Schumacher's 7, and Fangio's 5. No other driver's titles compare.

Especially Vettel's and Hamilton's. IMHO SCH is the best by far given what he did for 1. Ferrari that MADE them a winning team with the right people and attitude and 2. the fitness level you had to be at to contend with him. He honestly raised the bar at least one notch for each one. No one else did that in F1 not Senna, Prost, Fangio, et. al. - all. I've been watching F1 since '77 and no one has accomplished what he has done to this day, no one probably can now.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

#UnLeashTheLion (!)

Attachment 3613344

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

The proof is in the data. No one else could have won a WDC in this RB20 and certainly no driver, even the exceptionally talented Schumacher, likely would have struggled to win the title in Max's car. The fact that this has not happened in 4 decades further underscores that the immensely competitive landscape of current (2022+) F1 is easily the hardest field to win a title in given the fact that the deck is stacked against the top driver, top team in almost every way conceivable, and all of the benefit is provided to lesser teams. It makes the 3 in a row during this regulation cycle all that much more impressive to say the least. If Max can win next year, and win every WDC during a regulation cycle would be another first ever. Again, his 4 titles are the most impressive in F1 history along with Schumacher's 7, and Fangio's 5. No other driver's titles compare.

Until the Imola race weekend, the Red Bull car was arguably the best performing car of the grid (except for the Australian GP, with the engine of Verstappen's car detonating - mechanical DNF). Subsequently the McLaren car was best in class. Performance of the Ferrari and Mercedes cars was inconsistent.

Perez subpar performance in combination with Verstappen's optimum use of the tools put at his disposal (squeezing all out of what he got), explain why Red Bull ends P3 in the WCC. The Red Bull car deserved WCC P2 though and McLaren WCC P1. But drivers collect points, regardless how good or bad the car may be. Perez's subpar performance is predominantly to be blamed for losing the WCC P1 or WCC P2, not the car.

The 2024 season demonstrated the importance of collecting as much points as possible from day 1, as savings for a rainy day. Every point counts.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

This should be the scary thing for other teams next year. While most of them found time, they likely are at the top of their dev curve, and there will be limited time to work on 2025's car before focusing on 2026's car. RB already started working on the 2025 car now a year ago or so, and while this year, they may have stepped back a bit, this means they probably have the most performance to gain and certainly even a small thing like in Qatar yielded big results.
On top of that, FIA clamping down on illegal mini-DRS, the water in the tires (?), and the floor plank trickery, it means these things that were advantages for other teams are no longer.

But... Newey's gone.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by FrankMstein

Especially Vettel's and Hamilton's. IMHO SCH is the best by far given what he did for 1. Ferrari that MADE them a winning team with the right people and attitude and 2. the fitness level you had to be at to contend with him. He honestly raised the bar at least one notch for each one. No one else did that in F1 not Senna, Prost, Fangio, et. al. - all. I've been watching F1 since '77 and no one has accomplished what he has done to this day, no one probably can now.

Agreed - Vettel and Hamilton don't stand out amongst multiple WDC champions, and Hamilton's were the easiest won in the history of F1 - it's like paying a game on the easiest level and beating it. We all see what happened when that car and that massive advantage came to an end - one of the longest winless droughts we have ever seen (only ended due to immense luck and bad team calls) and that is on none other than the driver when you've still got a very competitive and race winnable car.
Schumacher was simply a visionary and well-rounded at that. His driving, his ability to build a team, and translate this to a winning car was astounding. No one since him has done that.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by Artemis

But... Newey's gone.

True, but if it is to be believed (and we've gotten some first hand accounts here), Newey's hand on the RB18-RB20 was rather limited. Then again, one man doesn't make or break a team. At the end of the day, the current team should have a lot of lessons learned from him and needs to be able to produce on their own as well.
Does this become another 'curse' Max leaves in his wake?

[M5Rick]

3rd quickest car or whatever was being banded about for the 1 RB 20, it is now the fastest car as others are actually fighting their teammates slowing themselves up and one in particular the 44 car has just seemingly given up as MAX without that weight on his shoulders just adds to his pace with his family and GF in attendance for back up.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

3rd quickest car or whatever was being banded about for the 1 RB 20, it is now the fastest car as others are actually fighting their teammates slowing themselves up and one in particular the 44 car has just seemingly given up as MAX without that weight on his shoulders just adds to his pace with his family and GF in attendance for back up.

Simply Lovely...

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Simply Lovely...

Another 1 for the collection.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Another 1 for the collection.

MAX is been programmed to race and win since birth..

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

MAX is been programmed to race and win since birth..

Back to my book now

[Straykiwi]

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

Schumacher was simply a visionary and well-rounded at that. His driving, his ability to build a team, and translate this to a winning car was astounding. No one since him has done that.

Someone more knowledgable here will be able to quote specifics but for me Schumacher was cemented as the GOAT when he nursed an ailing car over the line to win despite being substantially slower than the chasing pack. He very quickly calculated how much time he needed, determined the car was capable of delivering the required pace and the rest is history. Anyone else would have blown the car up trying to win. People talk about the best racers having a certain degree of luck but in my experience they make their own luck through shrewd calculation, a thorough understanding of their car and raw driving talent. If it truly was just a matter of luck he would be one of the luckiest F1 drivers ever.

[FC4]

Originally Posted by Straykiwi

Someone more knowledgable here will be able to quote specifics but for me Schumacher was cemented as the GOAT when he nursed an ailing car over the line to win despite being substantially slower than the chasing pack. He very quickly calculated how much time he needed, determined the car was capable of delivering the required pace and the rest is history. Anyone else would have blown the car up trying to win. People talk about the best racers having a certain degree of luck but in my experience they make their own luck through shrewd calculation, a thorough understanding of their car and raw driving talent. If it truly was just a matter of luck he would be one of the luckiest F1 drivers ever.

Schumacher was indeed one of the greats. It didn't make him any less of a scumbag, but he was fast.

Like Lewis, he's one of the few drivers in modern history to win titles with two teams while being teammates with a past or future WDC. The only other person I can name off the top of my head was Prost. Anyone else?

Winning multiple WDCs on only one team with slow teammates is still cool, though.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

So MAX ends up with another penalty point for trying to help those in front of him on slow down lap, this stupid rule should be changed and stewards should have told George to stop behaving like a little girl. What goes around can only be bad for the 63 driver.

Russell is a two faced snake .

[Killed by Death]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Russell is a two faced snake .

Seems one has to be a window licking rat bastard to drive for MB

Or TP for MB

[Davil]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Mika Salo explained why he and his 3 colleague stewards imposed a 10 second stop-and-go penalty on Kimi Räikkönen during the 2017 Spa-Francorchamps GP (context: Verstappen was stranded with engine power loss on the Kemmel Straight and was required to park in front of the grandstands - Kimi did not lift his foot - 317 km/h fly-by).

"The double yellow flag is a rule that must be respected. Kimi, looking at the telemetry, didn't pay any attention to the danger at all, keeping his foot down. There is a rule and we applied it, [full] stop. Pilots need to pay attention to these things because we are talking about important situations in which we need to be clear-headed."

Attachment 3613197

Kimi going full throttle at 313 km/h - double yellow flags flashing on the left hand side of the track:
Attachment 3613214

Kimi blasting full throttle past stranded Verstappen and race marshalls (right hand side of the track) at 317 km/h - double yellow flags (Kimi's reaction upon getting notified the penalty by his Ferrari race engineer: "What do you mean ? He was on the side of the road !")
Attachment 3613215

View from Verstappen's perspective: Japanese bullet train fly-by at 320 km/h:
https://youtube.com/shorts/P_B-KJcseM8

2021 Austrian GP: both Nikita Mazepin and Nicholas Mazepin got imposed 10 second stop-and-go penalties post-race, converted to 30 second penalties, because of ignoring double yellow flags.

From the interwebs:

Attachment 3613192

All deserved.

Driving past a wing mirror is a little different to driving past someone that you could kill.

They really messed up.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Davil

All deserved.

Driving past a wing mirror is a little different to driving past someone that you could kill.

They really messed up.

Professional race drivers are drilled time and time again about observing yellow flags. It's literally point 1 of the Event Notes. The Qatar Event Notes were no exception to that. If double yellow flags are waved, drivers must abide. They are free to question afterwards whether double yellows were necessary, but on track they must abide at once - no "but" or "if".

It's really 101 and serves to improve safety for all involved - way more than simply "the rule is the rule". It Andrea Stella and Lando Norris claim that they were not required to abide for whatever reason they deem appropriate or that the penalty should be less dissuasive (allowing benefit/penalty calculations), they should go look for another job.

I agree though that Albon's side mirror should have been removed asap. It was a hazard, not easily discernible for drivers from their points of view (their teams warned them about it) and it did cause avoidable damage, costs and heartbreak.

Known, reminded and notified:


"Compliance with the yellow flag rules is paramount for the safety of all parties and this requirement is clearly noted in the first item of the Race Director's Event Notes at every event."

[G30M]

Lando didn't lift

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Russell is a two faced snake .

Have you heard ALO's take on this, he has maybe joked that he will do the same as Georgie at Abu dabi if there is a slower driver on a cool down lap to gain a place. I think it's Fernie's humour actually.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Killed by Death

Seems one has to be a window licking rat bastard to drive for MB

Or TP for MB

From 2020 Merc has been in dire straits and now making team leader Georgie try everything in the book to get a foothold every which way as hammy has given up but as we've seen he is cruising for a bruising from MAX and will have black sheep Antonelli I would think easy to deal with in '25 also, I doubt Merc will have a much improved wagon on par with the RB21. As has been said MAX doesn't forget things, and adding on '21 Silverstone has made Toto's 'everyone has a target on their back' a desperate attempt to shy away from any wrongdoing himself.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by G30M

Lando didn't lift

Says it all then.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

MAX has put Russell on his to beat list (!)

That's putting it mildly heheh