BMW performance calipers - pads

[GTAStradale]

Hi guys. I am thinking to install BMW performance calipers on my M3 CSL. I have found a way do it with additional brackets and the question I have is the following:

Which pads can I use with these BMW performance 6pot calipers? Can someone tell me what pads are equal in the form (from some other car, so I can do the search)?

I would prefer Pagids RS 14.

Thanks in advance.

[GaryS]

Your options are Hawk DTC30, DTC60, DTC70 and EBC Red Stuff. Maybe I'm forgetting another one. But limited pads available is just the beginning of how these calipers will drive you insane. Why do you want them?

[pixelblue]

the only pagid pads made for these calipers are RS29. you can also get hawk DTC60 or DTC70 assuming you are going for race pads. for a more DD pad you can use ferrodo DS2500 or cool carbons. I am using the ferrodo's and they are the best double duty pads out there

[GTAStradale]

Thanks guys. I am thinking to put these calipers on, since the standard CSL single piston ones are not suitatable for the track use.

I tried with RS29 and RS14...they stopped overheating, but there is absolutely no pedal feel. So I thought these may be an improvement and they seem to be in a reasonable price range.

Would you recommend them? Any bad experiences?

[Focusedintntions]

If you're looking for serious track use Id recommend then going with a Brembo GT at least or some other bbk. These really are a true track solution.

[pixelblue]

Originally Posted by GTAStradale

Would you recommend them? Any bad experiences?

are you referring to the calipers or the pagids? personally I am planning on trying the pagid's next time around but if you were asking about the calipers then the answer gets a bit muddy. some people have no luck with them as they tend to over heat if used hard. in the 1er community we had to think outside the box and get creative with keeping things cool down. personally i have been one of the lucky ones with no heating issues. I think they will definitely be an improvement over the single piston floating calipers and if you address the cooling issue with ducting, titanium shims and premium pads you should be good

[GaryS]

I don't know what your other options are, but I'd be surprised if you can't do better. I do remember a BMW racing shop guy suggested replacing my front calipers with Porsche calipers to fit thicker rotors and for easier pad swapping. I didn't pursue it because I was already involved with getting RacingBrake front rotors, so I don't know what calipers he meant.

[DriveHard]

Originally Posted by pixelblue

are you referring to the calipers or the pagids? personally I am planning on trying the pagid's next time around but if you were asking about the calipers then the answer gets a bit muddy. some people have no luck with them as they tend to over heat if used hard. in the 1er community we had to think outside the box and get creative with keeping things cool down. personally i have been one of the lucky ones with no heating issues. I think they will definitely be an improvement over the single piston floating calipers and if you address the cooling issue with ducting, titanium shims and premium pads you should be good

+1 Im DriveHard and i endorse this statement.. LOL

Pixel hit it on the head.. I avoided any heat issues by preparing as Pixel did.

I tried coolcarbons but gonna try the DS25000's this season.

[GTAStradale]

Originally Posted by Focusedintntions

If you're looking for serious track use Id recommend then going with a Brembo GT at least or some other bbk. These really are a true track solution.

well...I would love to. but considering this costs 1/12th of the Brembo GT kit...I would be keen to give it a go.
Plus, I am happy with the braking on the CSL, its just that the feel is nowhere, so not sure that putting massive BBK is the way to go....to much unsprung weight on the front.

[GTAStradale]

Originally Posted by pixelblue

are you referring to the calipers or the pagids? personally I am planning on trying the pagid's next time around but if you were asking about the calipers then the answer gets a bit muddy. some people have no luck with them as they tend to over heat if used hard. in the 1er community we had to think outside the box and get creative with keeping things cool down. personally i have been one of the lucky ones with no heating issues. I think they will definitely be an improvement over the single piston floating calipers and if you address the cooling issue with ducting, titanium shims and premium pads you should be good

hmm..interesting what you are saying. I also heard about overheating and that puts me off a bit. but then, as you rightly said, they cannot be worse than signle piston ones I am running currently.

in terms of pagids, I have tried both rs29 and rs14. very different pads, but both very good. my personal preference is rs14. they are a bit softer and you get a good feel. plus they dont need to be very warm to function. rs29 on the other hand is a different animal. very hard compound...and you even feel it on the pedal. great for track use, they also last quite long and are good on the discs.

all in all I like both - but aboslutely hate them when driving on a normal road or in town, since they squeel like crazy!

[GaryS]

It sounds like RS14 is between Hawk DTC30 and DTC60. DTC30s don't need to warm up and they don't squeal, but they throw a mountain of dust.

[GaryS]

About the overheating, afaik all the poeple who had overheating problems that caused damage to the calipers were using high friction race pads, not street/track pads like Cool Carbons or DS2500. Also, most of them weren't using the OEM backing plates. I'm pretty sure you'll avoid any problems if you use the OEM backing plates with titanium shims and pixelblue's splash shield mod.

[fourtailpipes]

Originally Posted by GTAStradale

hmm..interesting what you are saying. I also heard about overheating and that puts me off a bit. but then, as you rightly said, they cannot be worse than signle piston ones I am running currently.

in terms of pagids, I have tried both rs29 and rs14. very different pads, but both very good. my personal preference is rs14. they are a bit softer and you get a good feel. plus they dont need to be very warm to function. rs29 on the other hand is a different animal. very hard compound...and you even feel it on the pedal. great for track use, they also last quite long and are good on the discs.

all in all I like both - but aboslutely hate them when driving on a normal road or in town, since they squeel like crazy!

have you looked into rotora caliper upgrades? they're conceptually similar to what you're trying to accomplish, but they use calipers that will likely perform better on the track.

[pixelblue]

limited choice of pads for rotora. I believe only EBC and hawk. otherwise very competitively priced

[BMWbab1]

Stay as far away as you can from the six piston BMW caliper! They are horrible and overheat like crazy! I wish my 135 came with single piston. Ever wonder why the M1 came with single piston......because the six can't take the beating of the track. After about four track events my pistons started to chip away and now they are chipping away fast and in bigger chunks. Buy BBK or stick with single piston!

[pixelblue]

Originally Posted by BMWbab1

Stay as far away as you can from the six piston BMW caliper! They are horrible and overheat like crazy! I wish my 135 came with single piston. Ever wonder why the M1 came with single piston......because the six can't take the beating of the track. After about four track events my pistons started to chip away and now they are chipping away fast and in bigger chunks. Buy BBK or stick with single piston!

sorry but it's well known fact that the 1M and M3 floating calipers are crapola! the only good thing about the 1M and M3 brakes are the bigger rotors.

[GTAStradale]

You guys scare me with some of the comments about this BMW performance calipers...to the extent that I am wondering if it is worth it or not.

I am still struggling to accept that they are worse than standard OEM single piston, but maybe you are right.

I go to the racetrack occasionally and I don't need race brakes. I need brakes that can easily survive maybe 10-15 laps in one go, without overheating.

How many of you had a first hand negative experience with them? What were the symptoms?

[GaryS]

I think the negative comments are all from me and one other person. But I don't think they'll fail if you take the precautions mentioned in this thread: use the OEM backing plates, titanium shims, splash shield mod.

If you take those precautions, my negative opinion is just that these calipers are kind of a pain to service compared to some others like Porsche and EVO brakes or any BBK. It's also annoying that popular pads like PFC01 and PFC06 aren't available. And so far, replacement caliper bolts aren't available at all, but thanks to massive hunting efforts by forum members, there is a lead on something that might fit, we'll find out this week if it works.

edit: but see this post, first time I've heard of damaging the calipers with stock or street/track pads, so now I dunno. http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...5#post11501695

[pixelblue]

Gary, Joe was running hawk HT10 pads when that happened to him

[GaryS]

I pointed to Chris's post. He says he was using stock pads and Cool Carbons.

[Focusedintntions]

In all honesty I think my brakes run cooler with the hawk dt-70's than they did with cool carbons or stock....the rb rotors also significantly help

[pixelblue]

race pads or high torque pads should run cooler since there is less slippage