BMW X5 and X6 Forum 2014-Current
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   BMW X5 and X6 Forum (F15/F16) > BMW X5 (F15) and BMW X6 (F16) Forum > BMW X5 and X6 (F15/F16) Forum

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      04-30-2015, 08:45 PM   #1
MattBianco
Lieutenant Colonel
MattBianco's Avatar
United_States
816
Rep
1,886
Posts

Drives: 2015 X5 35d msport
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Marin, California

iTrader: (0)

Engines: X5 F15 Performance Stats for 25d vs. 30d/35d vs. 35i vs. 40d vs. 50d

Last week I read somewhere that you can't tell the difference between the 50i and 35d in 0-30. Actually, you can, but the Ds show really well up to 0-50 mph.

Quite a shame that we will see a hybrid before we will ever see a 40d or 50d in the US market.

Note: where data was unavailable (such as regulated max speed on US cars), I used data from the European equivalent.

__________________
Amber or Red Rear Turn Signals? Vote/have your say: LINK. Post your MPGs 100L/km here: LINK X5 F15 Engines Compared LINK
Take the BMW X5 F15 Survey: LINK See the Results: LINK N57 Diesel Tuning Chips Compared LINK

Last edited by MattBianco; 05-03-2015 at 01:02 AM.
Appreciate 7
      04-30-2015, 09:36 PM   #2
Ashot12
Private First Class
United_States
44
Rep
174
Posts

Drives: 2014 x35i, lotus Elise sc
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Nor Cal

iTrader: (0)

They can keep 25d ,
Appreciate 0
      04-30-2015, 10:28 PM   #3
oshiri
Private
16
Rep
78
Posts

Drives: F15 X5 30d
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia

iTrader: (0)

pardon my ignorance, but 30d and 40d seem to have the same engine, so whats the difference?
Appreciate 0
      04-30-2015, 10:45 PM   #4
MattBianco
Lieutenant Colonel
MattBianco's Avatar
United_States
816
Rep
1,886
Posts

Drives: 2015 X5 35d msport
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Marin, California

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by oshiri
pardon my ignorance, but 30d and 40d seem to have the same engine, so whats the difference?
30d/35d is TwinPower (BMW marketing name for turbo). 40d is twin turbo. 50d is tri turbo. all share the same block. 50d has different pistons, cylinder heads, etc.
__________________
Amber or Red Rear Turn Signals? Vote/have your say: LINK. Post your MPGs 100L/km here: LINK X5 F15 Engines Compared LINK
Take the BMW X5 F15 Survey: LINK See the Results: LINK N57 Diesel Tuning Chips Compared LINK

Last edited by MattBianco; 05-01-2015 at 02:05 AM.
Appreciate 2
      04-30-2015, 11:37 PM   #5
oshiri
Private
16
Rep
78
Posts

Drives: F15 X5 30d
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia

iTrader: (0)

Thanks for the info, and that's a great comparison table. BMW should pay you for that.
Appreciate 1
      05-01-2015, 09:18 AM   #6
schaeffs
Private First Class
26
Rep
103
Posts

Drives: X5
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

That's excellent - thanks for sharing. M50d here and it's great - I'm really sorry you guys don't get it in the U.S.
Appreciate 1
      05-01-2015, 10:01 AM   #7
42pilot
Captain
42pilot's Avatar
373
Rep
710
Posts

Drives: 2014 X5 35d MSport
Join Date: May 2014
Location: GA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by schaeffs View Post
That's excellent - thanks for sharing. M50d here and it's great - I'm really sorry you guys don't get it in the U.S.
The US is still a developing country in terms of fuel quality and performance (cetane rating) in terms of diesels.
__________________
Sold: 2014 X5 xDrive35d MSport
Appreciate 2
      05-01-2015, 10:03 AM   #8
42pilot
Captain
42pilot's Avatar
373
Rep
710
Posts

Drives: 2014 X5 35d MSport
Join Date: May 2014
Location: GA

iTrader: (0)

5150 lbs curb weight for a 50i??? Yikes...
__________________
Sold: 2014 X5 xDrive35d MSport
Appreciate 0
      05-01-2015, 10:16 AM   #9
schaeffs
Private First Class
26
Rep
103
Posts

Drives: X5
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 42pilot
Quote:
Originally Posted by schaeffs View Post
That's excellent - thanks for sharing. M50d here and it's great - I'm really sorry you guys don't get it in the U.S.
The US is still a developing country in terms of fuel quality and performance (cetane rating) in terms of diesels.
Feels odd to say the country that put humankind on the moon is a developing country for anything!
Appreciate 0
      05-01-2015, 10:40 AM   #10
42pilot
Captain
42pilot's Avatar
373
Rep
710
Posts

Drives: 2014 X5 35d MSport
Join Date: May 2014
Location: GA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by schaeffs View Post
Feels odd to say the country that put humankind on the moon is a developing country for anything!
Yep. Watch the TV - we're still a developing country regarding race relations too. Even with a black president.
__________________
Sold: 2014 X5 xDrive35d MSport
Appreciate 4
      05-01-2015, 03:36 PM   #11
WilliCO
Captain
WilliCO's Avatar
United_States
68
Rep
900
Posts

Drives: 2013 F10 535 xDrive MSport
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Denver

iTrader: (0)

So this makes it look like real-world performance between the 35i and 35d are probably too close to be distinguishable.

That's good and bad for a guy considering a 35d. Good because it makes a strong case for fuel efficiency without performance compromise against the 35i. Bad because the buzz is that that 35d feels just as strong as the 50i in the "stoplight to normal speed" meter, where most of us want to feel like we have fast cars. These numbers don't say that.

Maybe there's more to it than the numbers suggest.
__________________
-Will
2013 535i xDrive M-Sport | 2005 545i Sport (Retired and missed) | 2001 X5 3.0 Sport (Retired)
Appreciate 0
      05-01-2015, 06:10 PM   #12
kip1
Captain
100
Rep
776
Posts

Drives: X5M50d
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: -

iTrader: (0)

Thanks, nice comparo.
Appreciate 1
      05-02-2015, 03:56 AM   #13
Kzang
Brigadier General
Kzang's Avatar
1249
Rep
4,065
Posts

Drives: 2015 X5 35i Msport SG
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: East Coast

iTrader: (0)

The engine displacement cc and the 0-60 BMW claimed performance needs to be updated..
Appreciate 0
      05-02-2015, 07:53 AM   #14
schaeffs
Private First Class
26
Rep
103
Posts

Drives: X5
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliCO
So this makes it look like real-world performance between the 35i and 35d are probably too close to be distinguishable.

That's good and bad for a guy considering a 35d. Good because it makes a strong case for fuel efficiency without performance compromise against the 35i. Bad because the buzz is that that 35d feels just as strong as the 50i in the "stoplight to normal speed" meter, where most of us want to feel like we have fast cars. These numbers don't say that.

Maybe there's more to it than the numbers suggest.
IMO - That will be because the diesels have excellent torque down low whereas the petrol engines have a better top end. Subjectively this torque gives a great seat of the pants feeling that you are making good progress but the top end whack of the petrol cars more than makes up for it performance wise.

On a side note - the 8 speed ZF box has made the diesel cars even better relatively as they mask the diesels shortcoming top end wise by being able to drop the engine back into that massive torque curve on each upshift. The move from 6 to 8 speeds was a huge improvement in the E70 diesels and that continues and has been nicely refined in the F15.
Appreciate 2
      05-02-2015, 01:35 PM   #15
MattBianco
Lieutenant Colonel
MattBianco's Avatar
United_States
816
Rep
1,886
Posts

Drives: 2015 X5 35d msport
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Marin, California

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kzang View Post
The engine displacement cc and the 0-60 BMW claimed performance needs to be updated..
They did an update for 2015 for N. Am., but as I was comparing all the variants, I stuck with the specs for ROW (ex Russia and Thailand who are tuned to lower HP for some models), to keep it more apples-to-apples. For instance, if you go to BMW Australia, the cc is still as above-stated for all the models. Also, once you start mixing data sources it becomes a mess.

At any rate, for those in the States, the 0-60, for the three available engines are:



And, for US, "As of October 2014 production, there will be an engine displacement change on the N55 engine (X5 sDrive35i and X5 xDrive35i) that increases displacement from 2979 cubic centimeters to 3001 cubic centimeters". Thanks for pointing this out.
__________________
Amber or Red Rear Turn Signals? Vote/have your say: LINK. Post your MPGs 100L/km here: LINK X5 F15 Engines Compared LINK
Take the BMW X5 F15 Survey: LINK See the Results: LINK N57 Diesel Tuning Chips Compared LINK
Appreciate 1
      05-02-2015, 10:35 PM   #16
42pilot
Captain
42pilot's Avatar
373
Rep
710
Posts

Drives: 2014 X5 35d MSport
Join Date: May 2014
Location: GA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by schaeffs View Post
IMO - That will be because the diesels have excellent torque down low whereas the petrol engines have a better top end. Subjectively this torque gives a great seat of the pants feeling that you are making good progress but the top end whack of the petrol cars more than makes up for it performance wise.

On a side note - the 8 speed ZF box has made the diesel cars even better relatively as they mask the diesels shortcoming top end wise by being able to drop the engine back into that massive torque curve on each upshift. The move from 6 to 8 speeds was a huge improvement in the E70 diesels and that continues and has been nicely refined in the F15.
I would bet most of our daily driving is right in the sweet spot of a diesel. Even when I owned a 525 hp 500 tq 2600 lb turbo Porsche, I only took it to its sweet spot (above 4500 rpm) on the track or when showing off.

In real world driving, like 0 - 60 or 70 like entering a motorway/freeway, the two engines are nearly identical and I would argue it's really up to the driver. By the numbers, they are essentially the same. If you want to talk about the 1/4 mile, they are identical - torque always trumps HP. So, except for the V8, as far as performance is concerned, the diesel has the edge because of efficiency - there is no masking of the diesel's short-comings because, by the numbers, it really doesn't have any.

Transmission technology and ECU strategy has come a long way in the last 5 years. My F10 550i had an 8 speed and I got great economy. And when I stepped on it, the ECU always chose the right gear for the given RPM/condition. I would never go back to standard transmissions (yikes, can't believe I'm saying that being a track guy since 1989) because you cannot chose the right gear faster than an ECU and you certainly cannot shift faster than an auto. On the track, a paddle shifter is the best option. Again, for street purposes it's the ECU that's doing the real work, admittedly in an excellent ZF package - keeping the diesel or the petrol in sweet spot. Tuning trannys is equally important as the engine now. Push the sport button on our F15 and it will select the right gear for the given RPM and lock the torque converter at a lower RPM. Line pressures are probably higher too which give crisp shifts rather than butter smooth of comfort settings.

The good thing these days is, you can chose a petrol or diesel and not lose performance - it is now completely a personal decision. You can't lose.
__________________
Sold: 2014 X5 xDrive35d MSport
Appreciate 3
      05-02-2015, 10:37 PM   #17
42pilot
Captain
42pilot's Avatar
373
Rep
710
Posts

Drives: 2014 X5 35d MSport
Join Date: May 2014
Location: GA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattBianco View Post
They did an update for 2015 for N. Am., but as I was comparing all the variants, I stuck with the specs for ROW (ex Russia and Thailand who are tuned to lower HP for some models), to keep it more apples-to-apples. For instance, if you go to BMW Australia, the cc is still as above-stated for all the models. Also, once you start mixing data sources it becomes a mess.

At any rate, for those in the States, the 0-60, for the three available engines are:



And, for US, "As of October 2014 production, there will be an engine displacement change on the N55 engine (X5 sDrive35i and X5 xDrive35i) that increases displacement from 2979 cubic centimeters to 3001 cubic centimeters". Thanks for pointing this out.
I wonder where the 22 cc's is coming from? Head design? Stroke? Cylinder diameter? Emission thingamajig?
__________________
Sold: 2014 X5 xDrive35d MSport
Appreciate 0
      05-02-2015, 10:58 PM   #18
MattBianco
Lieutenant Colonel
MattBianco's Avatar
United_States
816
Rep
1,886
Posts

Drives: 2015 X5 35d msport
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Marin, California

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 42pilot View Post
I wonder where the 22 cc's is coming from? Head design? Stroke? Cylinder diameter? Emission thingamajig?
The source of the 3001 cc for the 35i, and the table is a BMW press release. I just checked the release and it looks it has been revised, and also shows the updated cc on the BMW USA website. it now reads 3004cc. Source My response to Kzang used info from a thread on Bimmerfest where they had posted the original press release.

It makes no sense as so many jurisdiction tax based on cc, hence every manufacturer producing engines that are few cc shy of the round-up number.

Germany


US shows 3004! A number only disclosed in the detail specs on the website that is different from their own press release and rest of the world specs.
__________________
Amber or Red Rear Turn Signals? Vote/have your say: LINK. Post your MPGs 100L/km here: LINK X5 F15 Engines Compared LINK
Take the BMW X5 F15 Survey: LINK See the Results: LINK N57 Diesel Tuning Chips Compared LINK

Last edited by MattBianco; 05-02-2015 at 11:35 PM.
Appreciate 0
      05-03-2015, 12:20 AM   #19
MattBianco
Lieutenant Colonel
MattBianco's Avatar
United_States
816
Rep
1,886
Posts

Drives: 2015 X5 35d msport
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Marin, California

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashot12 View Post
They can keep 25d ,
But it does so well against other cars in its class. Performance is not an issue whatsoever. I will start a thread
__________________
Amber or Red Rear Turn Signals? Vote/have your say: LINK. Post your MPGs 100L/km here: LINK X5 F15 Engines Compared LINK
Take the BMW X5 F15 Survey: LINK See the Results: LINK N57 Diesel Tuning Chips Compared LINK
Appreciate 1
      05-03-2015, 08:03 AM   #20
schaeffs
Private First Class
26
Rep
103
Posts

Drives: X5
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 42pilot
Quote:
Originally Posted by schaeffs View Post
IMO - That will be because the diesels have excellent torque down low whereas the petrol engines have a better top end. Subjectively this torque gives a great seat of the pants feeling that you are making good progress but the top end whack of the petrol cars more than makes up for it performance wise.

On a side note - the 8 speed ZF box has made the diesel cars even better relatively as they mask the diesels shortcoming top end wise by being able to drop the engine back into that massive torque curve on each upshift. The move from 6 to 8 speeds was a huge improvement in the E70 diesels and that continues and has been nicely refined in the F15.
I would bet most of our daily driving is right in the sweet spot of a diesel. Even when I owned a 525 hp 500 tq 2600 lb turbo Porsche, I only took it to its sweet spot (above 4500 rpm) on the track or when showing off.

In real world driving, like 0 - 60 or 70 like entering a motorway/freeway, the two engines are nearly identical and I would argue it's really up to the driver. By the numbers, they are essentially the same. If you want to talk about the 1/4 mile, they are identical - torque always trumps HP. So, except for the V8, as far as performance is concerned, the diesel has the edge because of efficiency - there is no masking of the diesel's short-comings because, by the numbers, it really doesn't have any.

Transmission technology and ECU strategy has come a long way in the last 5 years. My F10 550i had an 8 speed and I got great economy. And when I stepped on it, the ECU always chose the right gear for the given RPM/condition. I would never go back to standard transmissions (yikes, can't believe I'm saying that being a track guy since 1989) because you cannot chose the right gear faster than an ECU and you certainly cannot shift faster than an auto. On the track, a paddle shifter is the best option. Again, for street purposes it's the ECU that's doing the real work, admittedly in an excellent ZF package - keeping the diesel or the petrol in sweet spot. Tuning trannys is equally important as the engine now. Push the sport button on our F15 and it will select the right gear for the given RPM and lock the torque converter at a lower RPM. Line pressures are probably higher too which give crisp shifts rather than butter smooth of comfort settings.

The good thing these days is, you can chose a petrol or diesel and not lose performance - it is now completely a personal decision. You can't lose.
Agree - the Diesel engine is perfectly suited to the usual DD tasks. Whilst not quickest against the stopwatch in a drag race the "roll-on" performance is outstanding - particularly in the M50d - as you rightly say it's that torque that gives what is a heavy car physics bending capabilities!

I've noticed the shift action in sport in the F15 gives the car a perceptible sense that you are changing gears - unlike the comfort setting which is totally smooth - it makes the car feel more sporty in that setting so matches its billing well. It also makes the car feel like one of my other cars in this respect and that has a single clutch robotised manual gear change - racy stuff for a two tonne SUV!!
Appreciate 0
      07-29-2016, 11:35 AM   #21
Tripperhappy
BMW Newcomer
Tripperhappy's Avatar
Australia
31
Rep
112
Posts

Drives: BMW X5 x25D and 640i Cabrio
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Greatest City in the world

iTrader: (0)

Guys, am new to this forum and am currently awaiting the delivery of a new X5.

I am puzzled by one thing, which is the power discrepancy and update from 2015

http://www.carspecsguru.com/bmw/x5/iii/group-offroad_5d

Is there a reason why the x25D power have been revised from 218HP to 231HP from 2015 onwards? I have not found anything much on the net on the reason why, and not many has reported this change officially.

The official information I have received from the dealer suggested I have ordered the 170kw (which is the 231 Hp version), but I have found very little mention of it, versus the 160Kw version on release.
Appreciate 0
      07-29-2016, 11:51 AM   #22
coolidge
Private First Class
31
Rep
171
Posts

Drives: X5 xDrive 35i
Join Date: May 2016
Location: WA

iTrader: (0)

How fast is the diesel when its sucking DEF during a regen?
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
bmw engines, diesel, diesel vs gas, f15 engines

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:37 PM.




xbimmers
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST