Should I upgrade to the F15?

[Seatown]

Hello all,

The lease on my '13 E70 35i M sport w/ M Performance Package (Carbon black/black dakota) is due this summer. I am debating whether to (a) upgrade to the new F15 X5 or (b) re-certify the car and pay it off. I'd like to get some of the thoughts from members of this board, especially those of you who upgraded from the E70 to the F15. You all know very well the pros and cons of each model and [even if you don't] you have experience living with the F15.

I test drove the F15 yesterday and was disappointed. The steering has become light and the suspension feels less sporty as well. I lurk on these forums frequently and it seems like many other have pointed this out as well. As a whole I've been disappointed with the direction BMW's driving dynamics have turned beginning with the E89. The cars all have nicer interiors, features, iDrive, etc. but they don't drive like a BMW should.

Another drawback for me is that the new model feels very similar to the old model in terms of its interior, ergonomics, etc. I am on my 2nd E70 so I'm going on nearly 6 years of the "same" car and the new model feels upgraded but is still another X5. Both of my E70s had black interior too which I want to avoid in the future since it makes the car feel like a cave from inside. I do think that the new model looks really nice with M sport package just as the E70 did.

Now as you can tell I really like my current E70, but the E70 as a whole is old (circa 2006), my the lease is due soon, and the new X5 is [objectively] a good option. What are your thoughts?

[Seatown]

I'll also point out that I test drove the new Range Rover Sport and while I think it looks nice inside and out the ride and driving dynamics as a whole are unrefined and inferior compared to the F15. I am disappointed with the way the F15 drives but it is still a notch above the new Range Rover Sport. The RR has jittery ride quality, equally-dead steering, and lots of engine/road noise. It is also more expensive to lease compared to the F15. I am still considering it though since it's unique and nice aesthetically.

I also test drove the Cayenne V6 and nearly leased one 3 years ago when I was switching from my first E70. It drives alright (definitely feels lighter than the X5 and has a sportier yet still refined ride) but it feels very compact, isn't very good to look at unless you shell out thousands on nice wheels, and is more expensive to lease than the X5.

So yeah the F15 is objectively a great option but I'm not "in love" with it.

[Kzang]

E70 driver here with my lease coming to an end in April. I also felt the same as you in regards to the handling and road feel with the F15. I plan to order a new F15 with DHP and Adaptive M Suspensions which should take care of the handling and steering feel.
I was able to test drive a DHP X5 but not with a Adaptive M suspension so I am not completely sure how it will feel with both.

[Seatown]

Originally Posted by Kzang

E70 driver here with my lease coming to an end in April. I also felt the same as you in regards to the handling and road feel with he F15. I plan to order a new F15 with DHP and Adaptive M Suspensions which should take care of the handling and steering feel.
I ws able to test drive a DHP X5 but not with a Adaptive M suspension so I am not completely sure how it will feel with both.

Thanks for chiming in. I would definitely get the M sport if I were to get the F15. My test car was an xLine and obviously didn't have DHP and Adaptive M suspension. It also had the small wheels so it had a little less road feel than an M sport was.

Unfortunately the new F15 is so hot selling in my area that the dealer didn't have and M sports in their inventory for me to test drive.

[Seatown]

I forgot to mention that the X5 has been a great option for me over the years because like most owners I have a family and need to get groceries, buy things from Home Depot, go on road trips, etc. The X5 has been perfect for my needs.

[r33_RGSport]

Did you guys opt out on the pull ahead program?
My 528 lease was supposed to end in June, but I was able to return it early last month to pick up another one.
It should saves you at least a few months of payment.

[Kzang]

Keep in mind that the F15 Msport does not automatically include the upgraded suspension ( DHP or Adaptive M suspensions) These are / need to be added separately.
MSport Line adds the dark interior cabin you dislike, cosmetics, Sports Auto Transmission and shifter, paddle shifter, and the Rectangular exhaust tips.
Hopefully, more people with better knowledge will chime in.

[Kzang]

Originally Posted by r33

Did you guys opt out on the pull ahead program?
My 528 lease was supposed to end in June, but I was able to return it early last month to pick up another one.
It should saves you at least a few months of payment.

I did... but I am just not ready with which options to take.. Also I want to see what March MF will be first

[MattBianco]

Steering is light, but very sensitive and precise. You should try the X6 as well, and the Cayenne. Those who have DHP swear by it and the cost tells me it actually does something (vs sport + transmission setting). It is supposed to make the dressage horse a polo pony, and judging by your description of handling expectations, probably a good fit for you.

If you want to be further convinced that it is actually a nimble SUV, drive the M, GL, and RRS.

I regret not pushing my wife more towards the X6, especially when she saw that it is a 2+3 ....,and .....noticed one in front of us last week, saying "it does not look as bad as I remeber it".

[batmanken]

new F15's do have very light steering and feels somewhat lose when cornering and driving at freeway speeds. I haven't test-drove the one with DHP so can't really comment on that but I'm pretty sure it'll definately improve the handling, stock F15 suspension has a lot of body roll. It took me a while to get used to this steering feel, my other car is a Lexus LS430 and I was surprised how heavy the steering felt all of a sudden after driving the F15, I always thought Lexus had pretty light and easy steering. It's not just BMW that's making changes to the driving dynamics, I would say it's most other luxury brands as well. I test-drove a Mercedes GL450, steering is just as light and numb as a F15. If you want better driving feel, sportier handling, I would go with a Porsche cayenne/macan, but BMW has much better deals on lease programs etc.

also pay attention to the tires on these cars because they come with run flats that don't last very long. I have the staggered 20" setup and dunlops ride pretty soft but when I tried out the bridgestone duelers, they rode extremely stiff and uncomfortable that I had to return them.

[Ninjaoz]

I've gone through a similar process recently, upgraded from the E70 to F15. When we test drove it, I felt the same way and didn't notice any major improvement in terms of its appearance and performance.

However, we had our F15 for almost 3 weeks now. I absolutely love it - the M adaptive suspension, comfort mode setting, 8 speed gearbox, connected drive options plus many mores. I'm glad we've made the right decision and never look back.

Though the sensitivity of the steering wheel takes a while to get used to it!

[Babs]

Originally Posted by Kzang

Keep in mind that the F15 Msport does not automatically include the upgraded suspension ( DHP or Adaptive M suspensions) These are / need to be added separately.
MSport Line adds the dark interior cabin you dislike, cosmetics, Sports Auto Transmission and shifter, paddle shifter, and the Rectangular exhaust tips.
Hopefully, more people with better knowledge will chime in.

Yes, DHP is a separate option that needs to be added to your M Sport build. DHP is $4500. If you order an M Sport, you have the option of getting the Adaptive M suspension for $900. If you do decide on DHP with M Sport, the build splits it in to two options. Adaptive M suspension at $900 and DHP at $3600, which equates to the same $4500 that DHP will cost with other lines or when no line is selected.

[senoromar]

There is definitely a tradeoff when going from an E70 to an F15. You give up on some driving dynamics, road feel, and fun factor, but you gain in overall quality, comfort, and smoothness. I went from an E70 50i to a F15 35i msport with DHP and Adaptive M. Even with those advanced suspensions, the drive and ride is still light and smooth versus an E70. Its a completely different kind of feel. As a driver i find it less engaging and fun but everyone else who drives or rides in my car finds it great and love the smooth ride and ease of steering.

My suggestion to help spice things up is to get the 50i if the budget allows or chip a 35i or 35d. Then at least you get some extra power to have fun with. My 35i feels kinda blah right now which makes me miss my E70, but i recently got back from a long trip and did appreciate the comfort of the ride, and so did the backseat passengers. I think with the right tune I will regain some of that driving fun and engagement. In terms of suspensions, I would recommend getting at least the Adaptive M. Some say DHP is a must, others say Adaptive M is enough. That decision really comes down to your budget and priorities.

[wjbender]

Originally Posted by Kzang

E70 driver here with my lease coming to an end in April. I also felt the same as you in regards to the handling and road feel with the F15. I plan to order a new F15 with DHP and Adaptive M Suspensions which should take care of the handling and steering feel.
I was able to test drive a DHP X5 but not with a Adaptive M suspension so I am not completely sure how it will feel with both.

I believe Adaptive M is a requirement for DHP. I have Adaptive M and it does a good job of tightening up the suspension, while still not harsh. I see a big improvement in roll control. DHP will not change the steering, you just have to get used to it.

[Baunton]

Seatown . Should you upgrade? Hell Yes!

[Taran.J]

@Seatown If you want since your local you can come peek and poke around my F15 lol Its not the highest spec but that's what I like for my daily cars. Less shit to go wrong or have me at the dealer more often.

[Wing Co]

E70 to F16. Definitely change, if financially viable, much better car.

[BXdriver]

I think you should do the upgrade.
(IF you actually want to go for another X5 - given the initial lines of your post where you mention "I am on my 2nd E70 so I'm going on nearly 6 years of the "same" car and the new model feels upgraded but is still another X5"). I mean, do I read here that you may consider "something else" as well?

After all, there must be quite some changes over these number of years.
Just get some suspension/DHP upgrades in the pack. Many new and bit different solutions yes, but isn't that kind of the nature of our hi-tech world and evolution.
On the other hand, as you already are an experienced X5 owner - you know what you get with BMW too.

:-)

Bent

[apw2607]

I would just buy out the e70. It's still a nice vehicle.

The F15 just doesn't offer enough to upgrade right now. Yes it's very nice but it's not enough if you have a choice. Buying one now is a bad idea as well as BMW is set to roll out significant upgrades including the next gen Idrive and new engine options. The next gen Idrive isn't just a minor facelift but a whole new platform that will be properly upgradable unlike today's architcture.

[Broadsword]

Just made the switch this weekend. Loving it so far!

[NPickles]

Seatown Should you upgrade to an F15, I would say definitely YES.

I have no experience of the previous generation E70, I came from a Lexus RX450h, but from what I have experienced with my F15 40D and what I have read on this and other forums, the F15 is a huge improvement over previous generations.

I tested many alternatives and settled on the F15 because if drove great, looked good and had excellent in car tech (I love my tech toys).

For me, Google Send to Car is almost the best feature . . . ever

[particulardude]

My '13 E70 MSport 50i is in for the service diagnostics they're refusing to call a true recall and I have a '15 F15 no line (maybe x-line?) 35i xdrive loaner.

My quick thoughts on the F15:
-new iDrive is amazing
-seems visibility may be a bit better for some reason
-instrument cluster is nice but I can make out some pixelation which is a pet peeve of mine being adjust to having my color screens in HD/Retina - prefer the big block orange in my E70
-electronic steering is heinous- maybe DHP addresses some of the feel but it's straight terrible compared to my E70 - hate that soupy feeling

The car I have is very nice and brand spanking new - only 7mi on it when I picked it up but there is no comparing a 35 to a 50 or a no line to an MSport interior or exterior imo.

So long story short, you need to drive the F15 you would buy - sounds like MSport 50i